(Sorry for long looking post, It is actually really short in context)
Hello, I am new in network programming and concepts. However I have worked with PUN before, several times. I am familiar with PUN way of synchronizing things. RPC and Serialization etc.
I want to achieve a full-authoritative and future scalable server architecture that works in dedicated servers and manages room/lobby services for clients. The server architecture that I am planing is, similar to the games like Rust/ARK/Hurtworld etc. However the game will consist 7v7 matches, (not 100ish like them, 15 max), but will also have mechanics that alters the world. (like building something to world or altering terrain by mining etc). Gameplay would resemble Rust in visuals, but the mechanics would differ. However server architecture should be very similar to those games. Meaning it won't be Peer to Peer.
To start: "I know" that I have to use Photon Server for these type of things. So I can code server side logic right? The authoritative architecture, the persistent world, user&world databases, server management all these should be done in the server side if I am not mistaken. However as i said in the beginning I have only worked with PUN before, and only client-server architecture I know is that: one trusted client (user) hosts the game and others joins to him.
Now. I can learn Photon Server and server side programming. (hell, even started learning it now. It is kinda similar how PUN does it's work. Operations and Events instead of RPC's etc.) However, to create a sustained server architecture, I have to learn and practice it in depth. Meaning: I need profound knowledge to create a commercial product server.
So for the initial prototyping phase of the game, I don't want to focus my workload to learning and creating the Photon Server. Instead I have come up with an idea.
What if I create Unity instances in dedicated servers, that creates(hosts) rooms with PUN (cloud). And other players around the world join to these hosted matches? Dedicated servers would simply be "non-player" master clients that hosts the games and let other players join to games. And also does server stuff by itself.
So, I would create a standalone "server-only" Unity project file, that can manage servers, manage databases, create and sustain persistent worlds. All the features that won't be in user clients, can be in the server(host/master) client's project. And I can manage all these in the dedicated server inself.
So to clarify: A "special" unity project that runs the game simulation, manage world, manage database, manage players, manage everything and run everything, will be the master client. Will host the game. And "client" unity projects will join to this game, and will "send" inputs for authoritative architecture. Server will "accept" these inputs, simulate it and send it back to clients.
To more clarify: Everything that Photon Server should be handling will be handled by PUN and Cloud relay servers, RPC's and Serialize funtions. So I wont hustle my workload with the server programming. Win-Win. Right?
I know, It is probably not the best solution out there. I haven't found any single document/topic about it. So It may be a really stupid idea to begin with. But I wonder. If I start with this type of architecture, when I get pass the prototype phase, would it be easy to implement Photon Server to server side? Would it be easy and work efficient to follow this approach? Or should I stop whatever I am doing, and start learning Photon server?
if you need to prototype you may do it in whatever way is convinient for you. but if you start to develop real product this is not a solution at all.
in order to make live of developers easier we introduced plugins. You may try to start with them. if at some point you see that this is not enough for you, you may extend PhotonServer.
And last thing, for sure we (PhotonTeam) and community will help you either here, or on our forum.
Best,
Photonians
Related
I want to create a program for my desktop and an app for my android. Both of them will do the same, just on those different devices. They will be something like personal assistants, so I want to put a lot of data into them ( for example contacts, notes and a huge lot of other stuff). All of this data should be saved on a server (at least for the beginning I will use my own Ubuntu server at home).
For the android app I will obviously use java and the database on the server will be a MySQL database, because that's the database I have used for everything. The Windows program will most likely be written in of these languages: Java, C#c C++, as these are the languages I am able to use quite well.
Now to the problem/question: The server should have a good backend which will be communicating with the apps/programs and read/write data in the database, manage the users and all that stuff. But I am not sure how I should approach programming the backend and the "network communication" itself. I would really like to have some relatively easy way to send secured messages between server and clients, but I have no experience in that matter. I do have programming experience in general, but not with backend and network programming.
side notes:
I would like to "scale big". At first this system will only be used by me, but it may be opened to more people or even sold.
Also I would really like to a (partly) self programmed backend on the server, because I could very well use this for a lot of other stuff, like some automation features in my house, which will be implemented.
EDIT: I would like to be able to scale big. I don't need support for hundreds of people at the beginning ;)
You need to research Socket programming. They provide relatively easy, secured network communication. Essentially, you will create some sort of connection or socket listener on your server. The clients will create Sockets, initialize them to connect to a certain IP address and port number, and then connect. Once the server receives these connections, the server creates a Socket for that specific connection, and the two sockets can communicate back and forth.
If you want your server to be able to handle multiple clients, I suggest creating a new Thread every time the server receives a connection, and that Thread will be dedicated to that specific client connection. Having a multi-threaded server where each client has its own dedicated Thread is a good starting point for an efficient server.
Here are some good C# examples of Socket clients and servers: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/w89fhyex(v=vs.110).aspx
As a side note, you can also write Android apps in C# with Xamarin. If you did your desktop program and Android app both in C#, you'd be able to write most of the code once and share it between the two apps easily.
I suggest you start learning socket programming by creating very simple client and server applications in order to grasp how they will be communicating in your larger project. Once you can grasp the communication procedures well enough, start designing your larger project.
But I am not sure how I should approach programming the backend and
the "network communication" itself.
Traditionally, a server for your case would be a web server exposing REST API (JSON). All clients need to do http requests and render/parse JSON. REST API is mapped to database calls and exposes some data model. If it was in Java, it would be Jetty web server, Jackson Json parser.
I would really like to have some relatively easy way to send secured
messages between server and clients,
Sending HTTP requests probably the easiest way to communicate with a service. Having it secured is a matter of enabling HTTPS on the server side and implementing some user access authentication and action authorization. Enabling HTTPS with Jetty for Java will require few lines of code. Authentication is usually done via OAuth2 technique, and authorization could be based on ACL. You may go beyond of this and enable encryption of data at rest and employ other practices.
I would like to "scale big". At first this system will only be used by
me, but it may be opened to more people or even sold.
I would like to be able to scale big. I don't need support for
hundreds of people at the beginning
I anticipate scalability can become the main challenge. Depending on how far you want to scale, you may need to go to distributed (Big Data) databases and distributed serving and messaging layers.
Also I would really like to a (partly) self programmed backend on the
server, because I could very well use this for a lot of other stuff,
like some automation features in my house, which will be implemented.
I am not sure what you mean self-programmed. Usually a backend encapsulates some application specific business logic.
It could be a piece of logic between your database and http transport layer.
In more complicated scenario your logic can be put into asynchronous service behind the backend, so the service can do it's job without blocking clients' requests.
And in the most (probably) complicated scenario your backend may do machine learning (for example, if you would like you software stack to learn your home-being habits and automate house accordingly to your expectations without actually coding this automation)
but I have no experience in that matter. I do have programming
experience in general, but not with backend and network programming.
If you can code, writing a backend is not very hard problem. There are a lot of resources. However, you would need time (or money) to learn and to do it, what may distract you from the development of your applications or you may enjoy it.
The alternative to in-house developed of a backend could be a Backend-as-a-Service (BaaS) in cloud or on premises. There are number of product in this market. BaaS will allow you to eliminate the development of the backend entirely (or close to this). At minimum it should do:
REST API to data storage with configurable data model,
security,
scalability,
custom business-logic
Disclaimer: I am a member of webintrinsics.io team, which is a Backend-as-a-Service. Check our website and contact if you need to, we will be able to work with you and help you either with BaaS or with guiding you towards some useful resources.
Good luck with your work!
Sorry if this is a dumb question that's already been asked, but I don't even know what terms to best search for.
I have a situation where a cloud app would deliver a SPA (single page app) to a client web browser. Multiple clients would connect at once and would all work within the same network. An example would be an app a business uses to work together - all within the same physical space (all on the same network).
A concern is that the internet connection could be spotty. I know I can store the client changes locally and then push them all to the server once the connection is restored. The problem, however, is that some of the clients (display systems) will need to show up-to-date data from other clients (mobile input systems). If the internet goes down for a minute or two it would be unacceptable.
My current line of thinking is that the local network would need some kind of "ThinServer" that all the clients would connect to. This ThinServer would then work as a proxy for the main cloud server. If the internet breaks then the ThinServer would take over the job of syncing data. Since all the clients would be full SPAs the only thing moving around would be the data - so the ThinServer would really just need to sync DB info (it probably wouldn't need to host the full SPA - though, that wouldn't be a bad thing).
However, a full dedicated server is obviously a big hurdle for most companies to setup.
So the question is, is there any kind of tech that would allow a web page to act as a web server? Could a business be instructed to go to thinserver.coolapp.com in a browser on any one of their machines? This "webpage" would then say, "All clients in this network should connect to 192.168.1.74:2000" (which would be the IP:port of the machine running this page). All the clients would then connect to this new "server" and that server would act as a data coordinator if the internet ever went down.
In other words, I really don't like the idea of a complicated server setup. A simple URL to start the service would be all that is needed.
I suppose the only option might have to be a binary program that would need to be installed? It's not an ideal solution - but perhaps the only one? If so, are their any programs out there that are single click web servers? I've tried MAMP, LAMP, etc, but all of them are designed for the developer. Any others that are more streamlined?
Thanks for any ideas!
There are a couple of fundamental ways you can approach this. The first is to host a server in a browser as you suggest. Some example projects:
http://www.peer-server.com
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/browser-server/
Another is to use WebRTC peer to peer communication to allow the browsers share information between each other (you could have them all share date or have one act as a 'master' etc deepening not he architecture you wanted). Its likely not going to be that different under the skin, but your application design may be better suited to a more 'peer to peer' model or a more 'client server' one depending on what you need. An example 'peer to peer' project:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/API/WebRTC/Peer-to-peer_communications_with_WebRTC
I have not used any of the above personally but I would say, from using similar browser extension mechanisms in the past, that you need to check the browser requirements before you decide if they can do what you want. The top one above is Chrome based (I believe) and the second one is Firefox. The peer to peer one contains a list of compatible browser functions, but is effectively Firefox and Chrome based also (see the table in the link). If you are in an environment where you can dictate the browser type and plugins etc then this may be ok for you.
The concept is definitely very interesting (peer to peer web servers) and it is great if you have the time to explore it. However, if you have an immediate business requirement, it might be that a simple on site server based approach may actually be more reliable, support a wider variety of browser and actually be easier to maintain (as the skills required are quite commonly available).
BTW, I should have said - 'WebRTC' is probably a good search term for you, in answer to the first line of your question.
httprelay.io v.s. WebRTC
Pros:
Simple to use
Fast
Supported by all browsers and HTTP clients
Can be used with the not stable network
Opensource and cross-platform
Cons:
Need to run a server instance
No data streaming is supported (yet)
I am trying to understand mechanism of how internet work...i understand dns. But this raise a question that if same is true for multiplayer games as well.
There are two type of multiplayer games that i have seen..Local/Lan and Online.
In online either you connect to a server or one of the people you are with becomes the host.
SO my question is basically can lobby be constructed without needing a server to reffer each player to the pool of players.
If not, than isn't it primitive. Shouldn't there be a way to create unique virtual infinite strings that each client could send request to and tell internet that hey direct all data headed to this address to me too.
The two architectures for multiplayer games that are most common are server based and peer-to-peer. Any code you could run on a server, sure - you could run it on a peer to peer basis as well. Simply, put the server code as the peer "server" code.
So in your lobby example, perhaps you could have the client code seek peer-to-peer-based servers versus normal servers. The seeking is the same as in the traditional client-server architecture... just different machines doing the work.
The point is, the client code and server code YOU WRITE has plenty of flexibility to do what you are asking. It just isn't necessarily the easiest way to do these things, so you may not find that people do what you are describing very often. Big games like WoW have plenty of big server machines.
I mean, versus a normal server architecture you could go for something like:
It boils down to what you mean by "server". If you are asking whether it is necessary that some machine run different code than all the others, in order to produce a multi-player game, my answer to that is no. But then each peer will be likely running some code that has traditional "server" functionality.
I want to build a decentralized, reddit-like system using P2P. Basically, I want to retain the basic capabilities of reddit, but make it decentralized, to make it more robust and immune to censorship. This will also allow people to develop different clients to match the way they want to browse it.
Could you recommend good p2p libraries to base my work on? They should be open-source, cross-platform, robust and easy to use. I don't care much about the language, I can adapt.
Disclaimer: warning, self-promotion here !!!
Have you considered JXTA's latest release? It is probably sufficient for what you want to do. Else, we are working on a new P2P framework called Chaupal, but it is not operational yet.
EDIT
There is also what I call the quick-and-dirty UDP solution (which is not so dirty after all, I should call it minimal).
Just implement one server with a public address and start listening for UPD.
Peers located behind NATs contact the server which can read how their private IP address has been translated into a public IP address from the received datagrams.
You send that information back to the peer who can forward it to other peers. The server can also help exchanging this information between peers.
Then peers can communicate directly (one-to-one) by sending datagrams to these translated addresses.
Simple, easy to implement, but does not cover for lost datagrams, replays, out-of-order etc... (i.e., the typical stuff that TCP solves for you at the IP stack level).
I haven't had a chance to use it, but Telehash seems to have been made for this kind of application. Peer2Peer apps have a particular challenge dealing with the restrictions of firewalls... since Telehash is based on UDP, it's well suited for hole-punching through firewalls.
EDIT for static_rtti's comment:
If code velocity is a requirement libjingle has a lot of effort going into it, but is primarily geared towards XMPP. You can port off parts of the ICE code and at least get hole-punching. See the libjingle architecture overview for details about their implementation.
Check out CouchDB. It's a decentralized web app platform that uses an HTTP API. People have used it to create "CouchApps" which are decentralized CouchDB-based applications that can spread in a viral nature to other CouchDB servers. All you need to know to write CouchApps is Javascript and learn the CouchDB API. You can read this free online book to learn more: http://guide.couchdb.org
The secret sauce to CouchDB is a Master-to-Master replication protocol that lets information spread like a virus. When I attended the first CouchConf, they demonstrated how efficient this is by throwing a "Couch Party" (which is where you have a room full of people replicating to the person next to them simulating an ad hoc network).
Also, all the code that makes a CouchApp work is public by default in special entities known as Design Documents.
P.S. I've been thinking of doing a similar project, but I don't have a lot of time to devote to it at the moment. GOD SPEED MY BOY!
I'm developing a multi-player game and I know nothing about how to connect from one client to another via a server. Where do I start? Are there any whizzy open source projects which provide the communication framework into which I can drop my message data or do I have to write a load of complicated multi-threaded sockety code? Does the picture change at all if teh clients are running on phones?
I am language agnostic, although ideally I would have a Flash or Qt front end and a Java server, but that may be being a bit greedy.
I have spent a few hours googling, but the whole topic is new to me and I'm a bit lost. I'd appreciate help of any kind - including how to tag this question.
If latency isn't a huge issue, you could just implement a few web services to do message passing. This would not be a slow as you might think, and is easy to implement across languages. The downside is the client has to poll the server to get updates. so you could be looking at a few hundred ms to get from one client to another.
You can also use the built in flex messaging interface. There are provisions there to allow client to client interactions.
Typically game engines send UDP packets because of latency. The fact is that TCP is just not fast enough and reliability is less of a concern than speed is.
Web services would compound the latency issues inherent in TCP due to additional overhead. Further, they would eat up memory depending on number of expected players. Finally, they have a large amount of payload overhead that you just don't need (xml anyone?).
There are several ways to go about this. One way is centralized messaging (client/server). This means that you would have a java server listening for udp packets from the clients. It would then rebroadcast them to any of the relevant users.
A second way is decentralized (peer to peer). A client registers with the server to state what game / world it's in. From that it gets a list of other clients in that world. The server maintains that list and notifies the other clients of people who join / drop out.
From that point forward clients broadcast udp packets directly to the other users.
If you look for communication framework with high performance try look at ACE C++ framework (it has Java bindings).
Official web-site is: http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE-overview.html
You could also look into Flash Media Interactive Server, or if you want a Java implementation, Wowsa or Red5. Those use AMF and provide native functionality for ShareObjects including synching of the ShareObjects among connected clients.
Those aren't peer to peer though (yet, it's coming soon I hear). They use centralized messaging managed by the server.
Good luck