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I am in the process of architecting an application. It will be a large, enterprise class web application. Thousands of users could upload files, search large number of blog entries with chat functionality and such. It will also have mobile interface. It should be highly testable, scalable and flexible.
I have narrowed it down to three environments: pure play ASP.NET, pure play DotNetNuke (DNN) and a combination of ASP.NET and DNN. To keep this very brief, here are some 'for' and 'against' on each of the options:
ASP.NET:
for: highly scalable, supports patterns like MVC, testable, consistent architecture.
against: long development time.
DotNetNuke:
for: short development time, large number of existing functional modules and skins.
against: architecture is sealed, can't support MVC, unit testing is difficult, inconsistent modules/skins, potential upgrade issues, user experience is inconsistent due to disparate modules from different vendors, poor documentation.
So, the questions are: what do you think? Has anyone switched from DNN to ASP.NET (and, vice versa)? Have you objectively evaluated these two and what did you choose?
Highly appreciate your help. Thanks.
henry.
DNN is ASP.NET, just with a lot of the work done for you.
Also, please remember that just because raw ASP.NET has the potential to be more scalable, doesn't mean that you are actually going to built it to be more scalable. Or that you will built it well in the first place.
It comes down to a trade off between control and resouces/talent. If you have many very talented developers (like, top-10% talent), a lot of time, clearly defined requirements for your site, and consumers who will be patient while you build out the infrastruture, by all means go with raw ASP.NET.
However, if you need to build it quickly and need to be flexible, or you have limited development resources, you might have to sacrifice some of that control and unit testing and potential performance (again, the "potential" part is key here).
Based on what you are looking for, I'd recommend you go with a platform like DNN, or a million other ones line SiteFinity or Umbraco or Orchard or something like that (some of them like Umbraco give you MVC too). It gives you a lot of the infrastructure and plumbing common among a lot of sites, probably done better than you are going to do it, so that you can focus your resources on the truly unique aspects of your application.
Just stay away from SharePoint. It's evil.
I've built raw ASP.NET sites for really customized applications, which was good because I didn't need a lot of plumbing and wanted really unique funcitonality through the site. But then I've built social networking sites with DNN, which worked well because it had packaged components for blogs and forums and chat and all that stuff, plus allowed for easy skinning. I designed another application for a customer that they wanted to have a lot of custom functionality, but they also wanted to updated a lot of content and internatalized it, so we used a Umbraco for that. And right now I have a ASP.NET app that works great, but I want to add in some social features, so I'm going plug in a Umbraco or DNN site that integrates with it to host the more common social components.
I would definitely recommend DNN based on your very limited list of needed features. You can always build a custom module to meet your exact needs or modify an existing open source module as needed. You can use the MVP approach in your module development to improve the testability.
Have you considered the Umbraco CMS? It is built on .Net (v5 is MVC3). It is open source and a very robust and well supported application. It has been used for the asp.net site for example.
It has a very short development time, many modules, extremely flexible and I find it very easy to extend. For example, I rolled my own workflow, event driven publishing and have created multiple custom administration sections for managing bespoke functionality external to Umbraco.
You can use XSLT, Usercontrols or Razor to create template modules.
It has a fantastic community too.
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I am tired of having to manage projects manually. We use subversion for version control, but ultimately, I want an app that can:
Send out notifications to clients on the progress of their projects
Allow clients to log in and see screenshots of projects
Keep track of money paid, as well as invoice due dates and how much is outstanding
Allow clients to post any queries regarding the project in an area
Manage several projects
I currently use
SubVersion
WHMCS --> would be great if it could integrate into this
Any suggestions would be great? Or might I have to write an app like this myself?
Redmine
Redmine is a flexible project
management web application. Written
using Ruby on Rails framework, it is
cross-platform and cross-database.
Redmine is open source and released
under the terms of the GNU General
Public License v2 (GPL). Features
Below are some of the main features of
Redmine.
Multiple projects support
Flexible role based access control
Flexible issue tracking system
Gantt chart and calendar
News, documents & files management
Feeds & email notifications
Per project wiki
Per project forums
Time tracking
Custom fields for issues, time-entries, projects and users
SCM integration (SVN, CVS, Git, Mercurial, Bazaar and Darcs)
Issue creation via email
Multiple LDAP authentication support
User self-registration support
Multilanguage support
Multiple databases support
Go Redmine site
You should definately check out Gemini. This has loads of awesome features and can do all of the above (plus a whole lot more). Also, we'll be bringing out some great new functionality on the finance side in the next few weeks.
Dave
I've been looking at Redmine: http://www.redmine.org/
As of now, I've only been looking at it for my 2 person company, and as it integrages subversion and other version control system directly into projects, I think it's an OK choise.
But as mentioned, I haven't used it in production like environemts yet, but it look well tested.
There is also a Turnkey version of it, which is ready to be used as a live CD or in a Virtual Machine: http://www.turnkeylinux.org/redmine
/Kristoffer
If you are looking for something that is hosted I would consider assembla.com. It has just about every feature you could want, and has worked really well for me in the past.
http://www.assembla.com/
We use PivotalTracker
Doesn't have all the features you mention, but it is useful for client interaction and project management.
You could write the app yourself, but you'd likely be better off just going with a SaaS! Believe it.
Your software needs are a bit ahead of what traditional project management apps offer, and it is likely you'll find many systems to be insufficient.
Warning: Just because most PM apps will be insufficient doesn't mean you should settle with multiple different apps. This will lead to double entry, inefficiency, and a list of other problems that come with apps that don't integrate properly. You're better off with something that combines everything you need into one system.
You could try WORKetc, they have a 14 day free trial and combine all the core essentials for web devs. CRM, Project management, collaboration tools, billing, support tools, email marketing, and even client logins (invite clients/contractors to check on projects you're working on related to them + they can collaborate).
WORKetc combines key tools so that it can be used to manage an entire small business. Combined alerts, reminders, calendars, to-dos, document sharing, and a bunch of other features. Worth looking into, other than that I'd recommend looking at the Google Apps Marketplace. Cheers!
It all depends on the size and scope of your projects.
I would say that JIRA is the best system available at the moment and if you only require a small number of users (<=10) then it is only $10 a month.
It's definitely the most complete system out there but obviously there is the hurdle of cost and getting it set up (there is a lot of initial set up to get workflows and things working how you like them).
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I've just started a new software consultancy business and I'm currently putting together designs for my website. We will be at a stage very soon to start converting these into a template for a CMS.
I have used http://n2cms.com before, but my designer has built many sites using WordPress, we recently built a site which worked very well and I was very impressed by the WordPress admin.
So I might be a bit risque and build my site in WordPress, host on Azure, even though my consultancy specialises in Azure & Silverlight :)
What's your thoughts? Can you suggest any other great .NET CMS's that would sway me away from WordPress?
Any suggestions much appreciated.
Cheers,
Ash.
P.S. Anything that uses Table Storage would be cool, and would be much cheaper!
I agree with Gabe that true Azure support from a CMS means leveraging the cloud's native queue, table and blob storage. I'll also add that a good Azure CMS should work out of the box when deployed on numerous machines sitting behind a load balancer (basically a must if you care about Azure's SLA).
I myself did a research similar to yours a couple of months ago and ended up using N2CMS in an ASP.NET MVC application. AFAIK, there is still no CMS to comply with the above definition of good Azure support, so I would recommend going with N2 if you use ASP.NET MVC. The learning curve is a bit steep, but you mentioned you've used it before so this shouldn't be an issue. However, the great architectural flexibility N2 allows and the fact it's open source were the decisive points in my case.
Regarding Wordpress, there's no arguing about the qualities of this CMS. Anyone who's used it (including myself) should be able to confirm that. However, deploying Wordpress on Azure still feels somewhat "hacky" to me. It will no doubt work, but I personally try to use native solutions and that's the reason I went with a .NET CMS on Azure and I always use Wordpress on Linux servers. I believe that's the right approach if you plan to maintain your application in the long run.
In the end, the choice you have to make is a trade-off between many factors like your in-house know-how, your preferred technologies, etc. If you need rather quick results and have Wordpress guys at the moment - go for Wordpress. If not - I recommend ASP.NET MVC with N2.
Well, at least that's my 2 cents :) Hope this helps.
Ash,
There is new free open source CMS called Composite C1. Just couple of weeks ago company released source code to CodePlex (before it's was 100% commercial). C1 provide you full control on layout (XHTML, XSLT) - your designer will love it... also it's build on .NET 4 and using C#, LINQ.. allows create quickly functionality..very flexible...and user friendly.. for example you can edit several pages at same time.. it's uses XML as data storage, so no need for database, but there is commercial module which allows easy move to SQL. Company having workshop today regarding Azure (check Community tab at the website) and looks like will take required actions in this directions (no time frame available).
DISCLAIMER: I work in Composite’s QA group, so this is not an unbiased suggestion ;p but I've moved my personal website to Composite C1 (from Umbraco) and quite happy!
The Orchard Project seems to have much potential if you want to be risque and still stick on the .NET application programming platform stack.
From the website:
"Orchard is a free, open source, community-focused project aimed at delivering applications and reusable components on the ASP.NET platform. It will create shared components for building ASP.NET applications and extensions, and specific applications that leverage these components to meet the needs of end-users, scripters, and developers.
In the near term, the Orchard project is focused on delivering a .NET-based CMS application that will allow users to rapidly create content-driven Websites, and an extensibility framework that will allow developers and customizers to provide additional functionality through modules and themes.
Truly supporting Azure means tackling the cloud storage challenge. As you mention, this means using native Azure storage (table, queue, blob) to persist data. To my knowledge, there isn't any CMS that has truly addressed Azure storage.
It's easy for a CMS to claim Azure support by using SQL Azure. This isn't true Azure support though. SQL Azure databases get capped at 50GB...which means they aren't infinitely scalable. Any solution that is using SQL Azure isn't infinitely scalable.
--
All this being said, I work for Telerik and we have an ASP.NET based CMS called Sitefinity. Version 4.0 of Sitefinity is coming soon and it runs using Azure & SQL Azure. If your database will never exceed 50GB, then this might work for you.
We've discussed creating support for native Azure storage in future versions of Sitefinity. However, I can't give an ETA.
--
Ultimately, I agree with others though; if you're happy with Wordpress, then use it.
Sitecore has a special edition that was design for Azure.
Sitecore Azure Edition
VIM4, Composite C1 is not support the IE10 for Windows8 CP. :(
This is meant to be a comment to Mark Good's answer, but since i don't have enough rep - having to post as an answer.
Sitecore does not have an edition called Azure, it is rather just Sitecore with the Azure module installed. We have talked to Sitecore before about this, and their sales engineers confirmed that was correct. It's semantics, but could be important in certain cases. Cheers!
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What tools, practices, or documentation have you used in your conversion process that you would recommend to others?
You could try Microsoft's
ASP to ASP.NET 1.x Migration Assistant
The ASP to ASP.NET v1.x Migration
Assistant is designed to help you
convert ASP pages and applications to
ASP.NET. It does not make the
conversion process completely
automatic, but it will speed up your
project by automating some of the
steps required for migration.
I guess it's better than nothing.
We've converted a few ASP classic apps to .net, and are in the process of converting another.
What we did was first to split them into two groups - ones that we would convert completely, before replacing the old with the new, and then the ones we could convert incrementally.
For that second group, it was useful to build some header and sidebar controls for the app that also held some of the more programmy parts - security, navigation and such, and then use an iframe for holding the ASP classic stuff, in the areas we haven't gotten to converting yet.
It's been pretty painless, as we can pull out the old, and insert the new on our own schedule, rather than having to get the entire massive app rewritten before moving forward. It's also helped us be able to tailor the changes and new features to our customers' needs.
There is a quick and dirty way to convert from ASP to ASP.Net since ASP.Net supports inline coding that was used in ASP Classic. However, you wouldn't be taking full advantage of ASP.Net with that approach.
The bad news is there's no easy way to convert from ASP Classic to ASP.Net the "right" way. They are such different technologies there's no streamlined conversion process.
one is a scripting language and other compiled so the overall paradigm itself is completely different and I am really skeptical that there would be anyway to convert / migrate your app from classic asp to asp.net, if you intend to use asp.net the way its meant to be.
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How much of ASP.NET or C# is required for Sharepoint development? Do you need experience with things like developing N layered web applications, design patterns, test driven development, strong SQL background etc?
I hear that Sharepoint development is different from enterprise applications thats typically built with technologies like ASP.NET.
If I know my basics in .NET, C# and have some experience with ASP.NET and have good understanding of things like Page lifecycle in webforms, web parts, Master pages etc, then am I ready for Sharepoint?
Also, is Infopath very heavily used in Sharepoint development?
If you already know ASP.NET than you are ready for SharePoint development. Get familiar with its SDK and other development concepts. SharePoint Dev Wiki might also be a good start.
A must have for new developers is to learn SharePoint from end user perspective. I am using this book to train the new guys. If you do not understand these concepts it might be hard to start coding.
It really depends on what you are wanting to achive, there are more than a few ways to develop something for SharePoint each requires different skills.
for example :
SharePoint exposes a number of webservices which you can use to complete a number of tasks.
A step up from that Sharepoint has a number of DLL's you can reference directly in order to access a more granular level of detail, but is more fiddly to work with.
Neither of these require any knowledge of ASP.NET but both work with sharepoint.
If you are planning on making a WebPart then yes ASP.NET knowlege is a big plus.
If you want to work with the Sharepoint workflows then you need knowlege of WF.
There is no one fit for developing sharepoint, which quite frankly makes it hard to hire people for it.
I guess it really depends on what you mean by SharePoint development. In my humble opinion you must learn what SharePoint provides out of the box in order not to reinvent the wheel all over again.
The object model, web services and how to deploy your work using solutions is something you have to pick up very quickly in order to be a good SharePoint developer.
As I am more of a consultant type when a developer I can't say whether you should know SQL and AD but I guess it won't hurt a bit.
If you are fluent in C# it might also be a good idea to have a closer look at PowerShell as it sure looks like Microsoft will integrate PowerShell in all server products including SharePoint 2010.
I don't think it's much different, really. I've been learning both at the same time to some success. Of course, ASP.NET and SharePoint are just different things, but SharePoint is built on ASP.NET, so to the extent you understand ASP.NET, you also understand SharePoint.