Update existing design of a website, use of CSS - css

I'd like to get opinions if this plan is worthwhile or not.
I have an existing site, and some elements have a CSS class defined.
I thought I would append each element that has a class with a new class:
<div class="existingClass">
would turn into:
<div class="existingClass newClass">
Then, if I want to override any attributes in "existingClass", I would do so in "newClass" (because the last class attributes are taken?).
I figure this way, nothing would break, so I do not risk anything because I am not removing "existingClass".
Any problems with this plan?

First know what is in the existingClass. Write newClass in such a manner that it won't break the layout. For knowing what is in the existingClass use tools like firebug to save time.

Indeed this seems to be a good approach, if you don't want to mess editing the already written CSS.
What you must master are CSS precedence rules, also known as CSS specificity.
Some good articles about it:
Specifics on CSS Specificity.
CSS Specificity: Things You Should Know
This is important because when you want to change a style, that chance will be visible only if you follow appropriately those guidelines. If you don't, then you'll face some troubles when rendering your page.

Related

does css selector require a definition?

Does a css class selector always require a definition? For example, if you found in the html: div class="banner", should you always find a .banner in a css file? I ask this question as I've been looking at some website themes and I sometimes find these selectors without any other reference. I'm just not sure if it's an oversight or something common.
There are many reasons to have class names on your HTML elements without having CSS rules associated with them. A couple of examples:
More readable markup. If a component is properly labeled, it's easier to find, debug, or work collaboratively on.
Javascript. Sometimes an element requires some Javascript behaviors, but doesn't inherently need CSS styling itself.
So to answer your question: No, you do not need to define each class or selector in your CSS.

How do I refactor my CSS? [duplicate]

This question already has answers here:
Closed 10 years ago.
Possible Duplicate:
How to Manage CSS Explosion
I intended to build my web site with consistent styles and a coherent CSS scheme. But styles have crept out of control as I fine-tune individual pages (especially the main search form).
I've already gone through the process one time of breaking down the styles and rebuilding almost from scratch, and now it looks like time to do that again. How can I be efficient about this? I'm looking for a methodology, not a software utility (though I'm open to suggestions there...unless they cost money...).
Added note: I'm using a CSS framework and it's difficult to keep padding and margin coordinated.
Added note 2: The initial responses to this post are about best practices for CSS. Let's assume I already tried to follow best practices (in fact, I did). Now it's the clean-up procedure I'm looking for.
Added note 3: As of 14 June, combining this response (which I just found) with my post below is possibly a comprehensive answer.
Closure notes:
I learned my question is too general, and for that reason I wish I hadn't posted it. (Maybe that's why it got a down-vote ... I'll never know without a comment to explain the reason.) On the other hand I got just what I needed, so I'm happy I did post it.
I'm surprised I didn't get an up-vote for my answer -- even with the priceless input by others, I think it stands up pretty well.
My acceptance is going to be based largely on the usability of the answer, from my point of view -- a point of view that is sadly unable to digest some of the more exciting and comprehensive responses.
Closed as an Exact Duplicate
I just tried posting this again (subject, body, tags) to see if SO would suggest the post "How to Manage CSS Explosion". Interestingly, it did not. I added the tag refactoring to that post.
Split your css into separate files.
Put in one file the CSS reset (if you use one)
Then create a global.css file where you will put global styles that
apply to many-all pages
Then create individual files for your individual pages
Then start styling your pages. Every time you find a style rule that is reusable on many pages make it a CSS class and put it in the global.css file. Avoid using css ID's. You will find that you more often reuse things or will reuse in the future. In this case you use of course CSS classes.
Eventually you will find out that in your global.css you will find mostly CSS classes rules and html tag rules.
In your individual page CSS files you will find specific styles for each page.
That should give you a good first level of organization in your CSS. You can try to keep this separation through the whole development process, and for releases merge the CSS files into one and minify it.
my 2p worth about css cleanup, from a a previous similar question:
Tips for cleaning and maintaining a big css file
hope that this may help you together with others' answers!
start branching the project (here I suppose that you are using a version control tool) - that will allow you to play independently with the code and tag any milestone you will reach.
format your CSS with a beautifier - it will increase readability and will help searching for specific declarations without missing any instances.
try to identify unused / redundant css and get rid of it.
you could try to make your selectors shorter (e.g. .main .foo .bar might be fine as .bar) - it will improve readability and increase the performance, but take this with a pinch of salt and be ready to go back if things start to break at every step you take.
try to eliminate, if possible, any !important - make the selector more specific if needed. A css reset could help with that if most of the !important statements were made to fix browser-specific issues, otherwise introducing a css reset now could potentially add more problems than solve them - this, if there is no css reset in your app at all.
break and regroup the css into different modules (and files if that helps) - Object Oriented CSS is a possible technique to keep things more maintainable, it works best if you start with it but it may also help you in refactoring. https://github.com/stubbornella/oocss/wiki is a valid one but there are alternatives that you can consider, like SMACSS.
After that , you may consider using a css preprocessor such as Less or Sass, allowing you to define variables and mixins (similar to functions), modularity and much more - this may end up being a very expensive task though, so evaluate carefully if this will bring you more benefits than pain.
test as much and as often as you can, consider unit tests to make sure that any changes you make don't break anything somewhere else.
Sometimes re-writing everything may end to be less time consuming than refactoring, so don't be afraid to leave things as they are if your assessment will show that refactoring will not bring enough benefits.
EDIT
Things change and evolve for good; with regards to OOCSS/SMACSS approach, I have been happily following for a while, Yandex's BEM methodology for CSS, I would like to add it as an additional recommendation to the above
The first thing I'll do is separate the CSS based on the purpose. Maybe first the general page layout (DIVs, boxes, ...), then the styling (fonts, H1/H2/.../Hn titles), then some more specialized CSS (CSS for tables, for forms, for specific components of the site).
Such a separation helps to organize the changes; if you have to change or add a font, you know you'll find it in the styling section.
If you have to change the page layout, there goes the same, and so on.
Things tend to get messy when you have "individual pages"; is their layout so different?
You probably have to abstract the common features of the pages (for example, a main content container box) as long as you can.
Then think about specializing more the layout (1-column, 2-column) and so on.
If you have a programmer background, just think about classes and inheritance, the concept - yes I know it's a totally different domain... - but the concept can be useful in designing your css.
Based on this current round of work, here is what I've got so far:
the Planning
Have a system for handling To-Do notations in your HTML and CSS. Many IDEs support this directly, or a global search function will do just fine. Besides tagging issues, you want to note priority and perhaps even functional area (but keep it simple, not a burden).
Don't start revising your code. Use your To-Do system to plan first.
Make a concise list of your overall goals.
Consider overall sylistic changes such as color or font scheme.
Review best practices for CSS. Identify areas where your approach is ineffective, or where a good approach can be applied more consistently. Examples:
Consolidate classes
Eliminate haphazard use of in-line styles
Remove styles that are unused or redundant or conflicting
Improve general consistency; apply a set of conventions
Improve units of measure
Use class and id names that reflect content rather than format
Decide how much of the browser market you want to support and how much to embrace or rely on the newest standards.
Decide if there are any new approaches you want to adopt. Examples:
Use of a reset style sheet to standardize browser presentation
Use of a CSS framework
Use of a specialized library, for example to help with forms
Dynamic CSS (I recently followed advice to use PHP to handle my CSS, so I could dynamically control my color scheme. But I returned to straight CSS, because I like the presentation of CSS code in my IDE and the hybrid method messed that up.)
Review your list of goals and decide which should be pursued now. Any large-scale change should be treated as separate, if possible. If your column layout is a mess, it's not the time to learn how CSS can elegantly replace your javascript. The same goes for best practices, stylistic changes, etc.
If you have your CSS files configured for speed (for example, compacted footprint or all CSS in a single file), change that. Break the code into a human-managable format. Later when you're finished, try benchmarking to see if the more legible version is also efficient enough for production use.
Submit your CSS to a validator. Note any violations you want to fix.
Find instances of in-line styles in your HTML (search for the style attribute). Note any that should be moved to a style sheet.
the Work
Follow your To Do manager. Make common-sense back-ups. As you go, test your work on several browsers.
If you are into regular expressions, be warned: regex is often not effective or safe for rewriting CSS. (Not as hazardous as for HTML, but still). Regex may be useful sending CSS changes into the HTML, but again be careful.
If you have a lot of tweaks to margins and padding, try globally resetting all of them to 0px (okay, use regex here). Then systematically build them back up. You can resolve a lot of confusions this way. Of course, don't include any library or framework style sheets in this process.
Again, submit your CSS to a validator.
I see people has already suggested using approaches like OOCSS etc., so I'm going to offer a different/additional line of thought. I believe that the problem lie deeper than within your CSS and the way you write it. I believe the reason your CSS gets out of hand is this quote from your question:
... as I fine-tune individual pages ...
That makes me think that the problem much lie within your design, rather than you CSS, so let me elaborate a little bit on that. In my opinion a great design is a design that doesn't have to be customized for each individual page - and there are several reasons for that. The main reason is, as you've mentioned yourself, your CSS get out of control. Small tweaks and fixes on individual elements, depending on where they are placed, often leads to a mess that is a pain to maintain and work with. There is also a usability-reason in play here. I believe a UI becomes easier to use if the user is familiar with the UI and recognize herself from page to page, without to much variation. Of course you could have some element that isn't present on each page, or that vary somewhat between pages, but I always strive to keep them at a minimum.
My suggestion is therefor that if you intend to rewrite your CSS, which is time-consuming and hard work anyway, then why not go over and re-evaluate your design at the same time. You will probably find that there are elements that you can modify so that they look the same. Make it a goal to get rid of as many UI-elements as possible, without compromising the design. When you've unified the design as much as possible, then it is time to refactor your CSS, and maybe even your markup?
At this point, it might be better to get rid of all your CSS and start fresh. If you continue on your old code, it is easy to get lazy and get stuck with some of your old less efficient code.
For the coding, I believe the other answers contain lots of good recommendations and best practices. I would personally vote for OOCSS, a new discovery for myself as well, but it has improved the way I structure my CSS a lot. So have a look at that! That will also help you think in terms of reusing elements and the CSS for them, which goes a long way for simplyfing your CSS.
This answer is in regard to the note;
"I'm using a CSS framework and it's difficult to keep padding and margin coordinated." only.
Using a css pre-processor will solve this problem.
Because css has no way to assign inheritance and therefore we have to repeat 'margin:10px' over and over.
with a pre-processor you just do
#margin {10px}
#padding {10px}
then
.mySelector{
margin: #margin;
padding: #padding;
}
For the broader question rethink/simplify your design as your css is directly proportional to the complexity of the design and there is not much you can do about that.
See also, http://www.stubbornella.org/content/2011/04/28/our-best-practices-are-killing-us/
This is more advice about making your css maintainable than the Q of how to manage the process.
I create a bunch of separate css files each narrowly tailored to a specific attribute (colors, fonts, margins, corners) or feature (nav, form). Then I use a compile phase to combine and minify these files into one or more files to be sent to the client. I do this during my built/test process, but it could be done dynamically by a CGI script.
Before adopting a pre-compiler, consider the often-overlooked multiple-selector syntax:
element,
otherlement
{
margin:10px;
}
In this example, whenever I want an element to have a 10px margin, I add it to the list. I separate different sets of attributes this way - I may list the same element 5 times in my css - associating it with 5 different sets of attributes.
Also don't overlook adding various classes to the body tag to create OO-like inheritance - say you have 3 main sections of your site - assign the body tag a class based on those sections. Likewise, if you have 1000 product pages, you can give the body tag a class like "product485" and then create styles that apply just to that page. For example:
h1 {
margin: 10px;
}
.product485 h1,
.product484 h1
{
margin: 5px;
}
.contact h1 {
margin: 15px;
}
This might all be in a file called "margins.css" which specifies only margins.

Resetting and Overrulling CSS under a certain element

I have element that could be injected into any page using a Firefox Addon.
Naturally, it and its ancestors are affected by the CSS rules defined on that page.
I can get so far by simply being explicit about every attribute, but even then my declarations may be overridden by an earlier declaration on the page with greater specificity.
Without making a huge mess of needlessly specific selectors and hanus use of !important, how could I go about resetting all elements' attributes under a given element (div#my_root_container_element) and ensure that my declarations under this parent element apply.
Using an iFrame is one option, but I would rather avoid it if possible - is there another way? Given the application, solutions need only work in Firefox.
Thanks.
Obviously, it seems like this aims to override the "specificity" which is core to CSS in general, but this is the closest I remember ever seeing someone attempt it. It seemed somewhat reputable at the time coming from someone involved with the YUI project:
http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/reset/#code
Using SASS, it's not too unpalatable nesting everything under a div with an ID to achieve sufficient specificity, which is the solution I've opted for.
That said, any !important declaration made in the page CSS will overrule my styles.

Should I avoid using !important in CSS?

Sometimes !important is useful, for example if I have defined common style for all links on the site (selector, say, a), but when I want to override some rules I have the following choices:
Use more specific (longer) selector
Use !important
Which way is better and may be there are some guidelines?
Use !important very, VERY sparingly -- it overrides just about everything, even inline styles, and messes in a less-than-obvious way with the "cascade" of style rules that gives CSS its name. It's easy to use badly, and tends to multiply, particularly when misused. You can easily end up with a element with !important rules that you want to override, at which point you often have to either refactor your styles, or use another !important rule and contribute to the problem.
And once it's spread and you're using it everywhere, you're back up in the same situation you'd be in without it (difficulty in specifying elements specifically enough to override other styles), but you also don't have !important anymore cause everything else is using it too.
When faced with a situation where !important looks appealing -- or worse, one where it's already in use and spreading -- prefer to refactor your CSS if you can. (Frankly, if you need !important outside of a user style sheet, it's usually because your selectors are already way too specific, and/or you're not taking advantage of the C in CSS.) You'd do better to define your basic styles as close as possible to the html or body elements, and when you want to override, use as little specificity as you can get away with. That way, you have plenty of room to make changes. Usually there's a reason you want to override a style, and those cases can quite often be boiled down to a class name, a particular section of the page (read: a particular parent element), etc.
(The only real exception that springs to mind is if the styles you're overriding are effectively out of your control. (If you use a framework that has very strong opinions on how your page should look, for example, you might find it annoyingly difficult to override anything. I've worked with applications that actually inserted their own inline styles, where nothing but an !important rule could override them.) If you don't have full access to the code, overriding and refactoring can easily be more trouble than they're worth. You can use !important to claw back some control, as long as you're aware of the consequences.)
What i can say is that you should try to avoid it as much as you can because it means that there are redundant code, and give an indication that the CSS and styles are not well structured.
But in some cases its a must to use it and no way to avoid.
So just do your best.
Avoid it when you can as this is what most advocate but at the same time it is important.
Have a look at:
The importance of !important in CSS

What's so bad about in-line CSS?

When I see website starter code and examples, the CSS is always in a separate file, named something like "main.css", "default.css", or "Site.css". However, when I'm coding up a page, I'm often tempted to throw the CSS in-line with a DOM element, such as by setting "float: right" on an image. I get the feeling that this is "bad coding", since it's so rarely done in examples.
I understand that if the style will be applied to multiple objects, it's wise to follow "Don't Repeat Yourself" (DRY) and assign it to a CSS class to be referenced by each element. However, if I won't be repeating the CSS on another element, why not in-line the CSS as I write the HTML?
The question: Is using in-line CSS considered bad, even if it will only be used on that element? If so, why?
Example (is this bad?):
<img src="myimage.gif" style="float:right" />
Having to change 100 lines of code when you want to make the site look different. That may not apply in your example, but if you're using inline css for things like
<div style ="font-size:larger; text-align:center; font-weight:bold">
on each page to denote a page header, it would be a lot easier to maintain as
<div class="pageheader">
if the pageheader is defined in a single stylesheet so that if you want to change how a page header looks across the entire site, you change the css in one place.
However, I'll be a heretic and say that in your example, I see no problem. You're targeting the behavior of a single image, which probably has to look right on a single page, so putting the actual css in a stylesheet would probably be overkill.
The advantage for having a different css file are
Easy to maintain your html page
Change to the Look and feel will be easy and you can have support for many themes on your pages.
Your css file will be cached on the browser side. So you will contribute a little on internet traffic by not loading some kbs of data every time a the page is refreshed or user navigates your site.
The html5 approach to fast css prototyping
or: <style> tags are no longer just for the head any more!
Hacking CSS
Let's say you're debugging, and want to modify your page-css, make a certain section only look better. Instead of creating your styles inline the quick and dirty and un-maintainable way, you can do what I do these days and take a staged approach.
No inline style attribute
Never create your css inline, by which I mean: <element style='color:red'> or even <img style='float:right'> It's very convenient, but doesn't reflect actual selector specificity in a real css file later, and if you keep it, you'll regret the maintenance load later.
Prototype with <style> instead
Where you would have used inline css, instead use in-page <style> elements. Try that out! It works fine in all browsers, so is great for testing, yet allows you to gracefully move such css out to your global css files whenever you want/need to! ( *just be aware that the selectors will only have page-level specificity, instead of site-level specificity, so be wary of being too general) Just as clean as in your css files:
<style>
.avatar-image{
float:right
}
.faq .warning{
color:crimson;
}
p{
border-left:thin medium blue;
// this general of a selector would be very bad, though.
// so be aware of what'll happen to general selectors if they go
// global
}
</style>
Refactoring other people's inline css
Sometimes you're not even the problem, and you're dealing with someone else's inline css, and you have to refactor it. This is another great use for the <style> in page, so that you can directly strip the inline css and immediate place it right on the page in classes or ids or selectors while you're refactoring. If you are careful enough with your selectors as you go, you can then move the final result to the global css file at the end with just a copy & paste.
It's a little hard to transfer every bit of css immediately to the global css file, but with in-page <style> elements, we now have alternatives.
In addition to other answers.... Internationalization.
Depending of the language of the content - you often need to adapt the styling of an element.
One obvious example would be right-to-left languages.
Let's say you used your code:
<img src="myimage.gif" style="float:right" />
Now say you want your website to support rtl languages - you would need:
<img src="myimage.gif" style="float:left" />
So now, if you want to support both languages, there's no way to assign a value to float using inline styling.
With CSS this is easily taken care of with the lang attribute
So you could do something like this:
img {
float:right;
}
html[lang="he"] img { /* Hebrew. or.. lang="ar" for Arabic etc */
float:left;
}
Demo
Inline CSS will always, always win in precedence over any linked-stylesheet CSS. This can cause enormous headache for you if and when you go and write a proper cascading stylesheet, and your properties aren't applying correctly.
It also hurts your application semantically: CSS is about separating presentation from markup. When you tangle the two together, things get much more difficult to understand and maintain. It's a similar principle as separating database code from your controller code on the server side of things.
Finally, imagine that you have 20 of those image tags. What happens when you decide that they should be floated left?
This only applies to handwritten code. If you generate code, I think that it's okay to use inline styles here and then, especially in cases where elements and controls need special treatment.
DRY is a good concept for handwritten code, but in machine-generated code, I opt for "Law of Demeter": "What belongs together, must stay together". It's easier to manipulate code that generates Style tags than to edit a global style a second time in a different and "remote" CSS file.
The answer to your question: it depends...
Using inline CSS is much harder to maintain.
For every property you want to change, using inline CSS requires you to look for the corresponding HTML code, instead of just looking inside clearly-defined and hopefully well-structured CSS files.
The whole point of CSS is to separate content from its presentation. So in your example you are mixing content with presentation and this may be "considered harmful".
In addition to the other answers, another concern is that it violates the recommended Content Security Policy from MDN, https://infosec.mozilla.org/guidelines/web_security#content-security-policy
The justification they use is that inline javascript is harmful, XSS, etc., but it doesn't justify why inline styles should also be disabled. Maybe someone can comment as to why, but until then, I'll just rely on appeal-to-authority and claim: it's a security best practice to avoid inline styles.
Code how you like to code, but if you are passing it on to someone else it is best to use what everyone else does. There are reasons for CSS, then there are reasons for inline. I use both, because it is just easier for me. Using CSS is wonderful when you have a lot of the same repetition. However, when you have a bunch of different elements with different properties then that becomes a problem. One instance for me is when I am positioning elements on a page. Each element as a different top and left property. If I put that all in a CSS that would really annoy the mess out of me going between the html and css page. So CSS is great when you want everything to have the same font, color, hover effect, etc. But when everything has a different position adding a CSS instance for each element can really be a pain. That is just my opinion though. CSS really has great relevance in larger applications when your having to dig through code. Use Mozilla web developer plugin and it will help you find the elements IDs and Classes.
I think that even if you want to have a certain style for one element, you have to consider the possibility that you may want to apply the same style on the same element on different pages.
One day somebody may ask to change or add more stylistic changes to the same element on every page. If you had the styles defined in an external CSS file, you would only have to make changes there, and it would be reflected in the same element in all of the pages, thus saving you a headache. :-)
Even if you only use the style once as in this example you've still mixed CONTENT and DESIGN. Lookup "Separation of concerns".
Using inline styles violates the Separation of Concerns principle, as you are effectively mixing markup and style in the same source file. It also, in most cases, violates the DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) principle since they are only applicable to a single element, whereas a class can be applied to several of them (and even be extended through the magic of CSS rules!).
Furthermore, judicious use of classes is beneficial if your site contains scripting. For example, several popular JavaScript libs such as JQuery depend heavily on classes as selectors.
Finally, using classes adds additional clarity to your DOM, since you effectively have descriptors telling you what kind of element a given node in it is. For example:
<div class="header-row">It's a row!</div>
Is a lot more expressive than:
<div style="height: 80px; width: 100%;">It's...something?</div>
Inline CSS is good for machine-generated code, and can be fine when most visitors only browse one page on a site, but one thing it can't do is handle media queries to allow different looks for screens of different sizes. For that, you need to include the CSS either in an external style sheet or in an internal style tag.
In-page css is the in-thing at the moment because Google rates it as giving a better user experience than css loaded from a separate file. A possible solution is to put the css in a text file, load it on the fly with php, and output it into the document head. In the <head> section include this:
<head> ...
<?php
$codestring = file_get_contents("styles/style1.txt");
echo "<style>" . $codestring . "</style>";
?>
... </head>
Put the required css in styles/style1.txt and it'll get spat out in the <head> section of your document. This way, you'll have in-page css with the benefit of using a style template, style1.txt, which can be shared by any and all pages, allowing site-wide style changes to be made via only that one file. Furthermore, this method doesn't require the browser to request separate css files from the server (thus minimising retrieval / rendering time), since everything is delivered at once by php.
Having implemented this, individual one-time-only styles can be manually coded where needed.
According to the AMP HTML Specification it is necessary to put CSS in your HTML file (vs an external stylesheet) for performance purposes. This does not mean inline CSS but they do specify no external stylesheets.
An incomplete list of optimizations such a serving system might do is:
Replace image references with images sized to the viewer’s viewport.
Inline images that are visible above the fold.
Inline CSS variables.
Preload extended components.
Minify HTML and CSS.
Personally, I think the hatred of inline css is just ridiculous. Hardcore cult behaviour, people just sheepishly repeat "Separation of concerns!". Yes, there are times where if there is a repeating element and you will need repeated styling to use a class targeted from a CSS file, but most of the time it improves speed of development and CLARITY OF CODE to put the style inline, it's great if I can look at the code and see that there is a custom margin height, it helps me picture the HTML document as a whole, instead of some named class that gives me little insight into which styles will be applied.
So I will be the contrarian here and say that inline css is great and that people who scream at you for using it are just following what they have been told without actually giving it any original unbiased consideration.
Even though I totally agree with all the answers given above that writing CSS in a separate file is always better from code reusability, maintainability, better separation of concerns there are many scenarios where people prefer inline CSS in their production code -
The external CSS file causes one extra HTTP call to browser and thus additional latency. Instead if the CSS is inserted inline then browser can start parsing it right away. Especially over SSL HTTP calls are more costly and adds up additional latency to the page. There are many tools available that helps to generate static HTML pages (or page snippet) by inserting external CSS files as inline code. These tools are used at the Build and Release phase where the production binary is generated. This way we get all the advantages of external CSS and also the page becomes faster.
In addition to other answers, you cant target the pseudo-classes or pseudo-elements in inline CSS
We have created a template-driven artifact generator that provides an include file capability for any kind of text artifact -- HTML, XML, computer languages, unstructured text, DSV, etc. (E.g., it's great for handling common Web or manual page headers and footers without scripting.)
Once you have that and use it to provide "style" tags inside your "head" tag, the "separation of concerns" argument goes away, to be replaced by "we have to regenerate after every change to the template" and "we have to debug the template from what it generates". Those gripes have been around since the first computer language to get a preprocessor (or someone started using M4).
On balance, we think the meta-izing capability of either a CSS file or "style" tags is cleaner and less error-prone than element-level styling. But it does require some professional judgment, so newbies and scatterbrains don't bother.

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