Firstly, I have only recently tried my hand at building with razor in cshtml using Webmatrix and I found it much less time consuming than building aspx web forms. Having gotten used to it, I can now do all the things I used to do inside my aspx projects much quicker and with much less code...
Now, I've spent today looking around google etc at companies using cshtml, what they're using it for etc, but I can't find a large range of examples out there. Maybe I was just looking in the wrong place, rendering this question title incorrect, but I just had a feeling that there is a reason why companies are still using aspx over cshtml.
I'm about to start a project next month for a big client and I can't decide whether to take the step of building it this way (they need a custom blog, login area etc). Any thoughts? The only other stack thread I found of any use with regards to a debate was: Razor/CSHTML - Any Benefit over what we have?
Thanks,
Adam
A lot of it has to do with ASP (classic) has been around a lot longer and (depending the project size) a migration can incur too much cost.
There's also considerations like:
What does the current web staff know (what are they fluent in?)
What libraries (proprietary or otherwise) are already dependent on ASP (including custom controls).
How much of an SEO hit are you going to take converting (some sites can mimic classic aspx page suffixes by just changing the way the routes behaving but are in-fact using cshtml).
There isn't a compelling reason for experienced ASP.NET developers to move from Web Forms or MVC to Web Pages (Razor). As a framework, it is designed to attract those who might find Web Forms or MVC too much of a learning curve. Those coming from Classic ASP or PHP, for example.
I answer a lot of questions on the Web Pages framework over at the ASP.NET forums, and I have definitely seen an increase in the number of people trying the framework out. In terms of functionality and security, you have the whole ASP.NET framework behind you so you can do anything with Web Pages that you can do with MVC or Web Forms - a lot of it more easily.
The Web Pages framework is not designed with testability in mind, and it may be more difficult for teams to organise since a certain amount of server-logic is embedded in the same file as HTML.
If you are a lone developer and happy using Web Pages, go for it.
There been a lot of discussion about the topic. Its just opinions, right tool for the right job. Please look into the following for opinions & answers:
MVC 3 ASPX VS RAZOR View Engine
Razor vs Webforms view engine for new ASP.NET MVC 3 site
What is the difference between Razor and ASPX?
Hope this helps
Related
I am new to ASP.NET. and having big job converting ASP E-commerce website (It has lots of things those are customised like business logic, having own Database structure) to ASP.NET. Here, I am getting confused with some issues... I am writing this here after having lots of thinking of these issues but still they are unsolved. I have estimated 8-10 weeks for these job, and this is 2nd week is going on...
Is it better to create E-Commerce website from scratch or Modify current available Solutions?
If Creating new one, than which one is better ? ASP.NET Web Forms using N-tier Structure or MVC (Having no experience in this)
Is it true that MVC makes website access faster than Web Forms does?
Or its better to take some time, learn MVC and go ahead?
I think, may be there are questions like these, than please redirect me on that.
Thanks.
If you know web forms, use web forms. Web forms is still a good technology with great third-party controls. There's no reason to use an unfamiliar technology.
I looked up the EF mentioned and came across http://efvote.wufoo.com/forms/z7x3p9/
Apparently there is a list close to 1000 experts including MVPs that state that EF is no longer a viable option unless MS invests in its improvement.
I've built several database driven web sites with ASP and I'm trying to migrate the basic functionality to an ASP.NET architecture.
I want to have each link in my navigation tree correspond to a different function that will step a user through various requests and provide sequential database driven responses and possible follow-up questions. I typically do this in ASP by using the query string to execute different parts of the code in an SSI file. Each link in my navigation tree basically calls a different SSI file.
In ASP.NET I think I have a pretty good handle on web form basics, data binding, site navigation tools and master pages, but I'm having trouble with the overall design picture.
Do I want to have each link redirecting the user to different pages? My understanding is that ASP.NET is much better at maintaining state information and so I shouldn't have to rely on the query string to keep passing values to an SSI file to do sequential parts of each task.
Should I be using BLL and DAL to do this and/or stored procedures and managed code? Or could I do this sort of thing more simply with ASP.NET web pages, as opposed to web forms?
Feedback that would include a reference article and/or web example would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
You don't necessarily have to abandon your whole way of thinking and take up ASP.NET Web Forms.
I've been making sites with ASP.NET Web Forms since it came out in 2001. But I think ASP.NET MVC would be an easier transition for you. I mean, some things are more difficult in MVC than in Web Forms. But on the whole, MVC will promote more web friendly practices and it's what I prefer now.
For example, the whole idea of postbacks and viewstate in Web Forms certainly makes a lot of things easier. But they also have a problem of hurting SEO and breaking the back button. MVC doesn't rely on any of this and it's easier to refine the user experience with the way form posts, redirects, and URLs are handled.
I wrote an article awhile back comparing MVC vs Web Forms...
http://swortham.blogspot.com/2009/10/when-to-use-aspnet-web-forms-and-when.html
Based on what I'm seeing, it looks like you've got wizard-style navigation across multiple ASP pages, and you want to have wizard-style navigation in an ASP.NET (WebForms not MVC) site.
If I'm misunderstanding this, I'll gladly delete this answer.
I'd recommend the Wizard control, (Video demos available all over the place) which will provide such an interface in one page, reducing a lot of the complexity. there's no need to keep track of variables across pages - it's all in one page, and therefore always accessible.
Wizard pages do tend to have a LOT of code and markup, but the trade-off is that all of the wizard functionality is in one pace, not scattered across files, and it's inherently obvious what's happening at each step. With the multiple-file approach, a maintenance developer needs to trace which page posts to which page and spend more time understanding the design.
The article on MVC vs Web Forms was quite interesting, although after looking at a few training videos I got the impression that the coding is quite a bit different from ASP. (Most of the examples I also see involve C#, although I have seen a few with VB, which is preferred since I'm already learning a lot of new things in a short time.) Also, I wonder if MVC will let me use the validation tools, which will be quite necessary in a different aspect of this project that involves several different and quite long forms. Given that I've invested a fair amount of time in learning about ASP.NET, I'm wondering if I should just go the extra mile (or two) and learn how to create business objects (BLL) and a data layer (DAL).
I have been looking at ASP.Net Web Pages and I think it would be a good replacement for some classic asp sites I am working on. There is a lot about them that is similar to how classic asp did things, so I believe there is a chance I can drag the other programmers into the present. My problem is that I have yet been able to find any indepth documentation to see if there is any "gotchas" I need to be aware of if I choose to go down this path. So if anyone knows of any, I could really use that information. I think going straight to MVC and Web Forms would be a bridge too far for the others at the moment. Thanks.
Wade
I found a link from Mike Brind - should I use WebMatrix to build a real-world website?
I'd suggest that Web Pages as a framework is probably the best next step you can take, but I would also advise that at least one person in the team takes time to understand the basics behind the MVC pattern. You may decide it's too much for the majority of the team at the moment, and that's fair enough, but you can use your knowledge to plan the development of the Web Pages site so that it can be more easily converted to MVC at some stage in the future, should you decide that's the way to go.
The things I would look at (coming from a classic ASP background myself) are functions and helpers. Decide on a data access strategy - The Entity Framework works well with Web Pages and can be transferred to MVC easily. Avoid the Database helper. Use Visual Web Developer 2010 SP1 for the Intellisense option.
As Knox said, you have the whole of the ASP.NET framework available to you so there should be no Web Pages specific "gotchas", and it's a massive step up from classic ASP.
I've been using Webmatrix/WebPages/Razor for a while now and like it. It's been a while since I used Classic ASP, but WebPages to me feels like a true successor to classic asp and what ASP.net should have been from the start. I'm actually moving most of my smaller sites to the WebPages framework from WebForms. Here are some things I've encountered.
I'm not sure if this is a gotcha or not, but I thought I would mention that with WebPages the scope of your variables may behave differently. I know a lot of Classic ASP sites that used to use include files to run snippets of code. Many of them depended on global variables set in the parent document. In WebPages, if you use RenderPage or Helpers to replace includes they run mostly outside of the Parent's scope. If you used Server.Execute instead of includes then you might not notice much difference, but if you did use includes and lots of global variables you may notice it.
Another possible gotcha is in ClassicASP <%=%> doesn't encode output, but in WebPages the Razor syntax # encodes output by default.
Another thing to consider is using C# vs VB.net with Webpages. Although vb.net works you'll find that most samples, tutorials and people in forums use C#.
Finally something that bothers me is that it is named the "webpages" framework. I've found it hard to do a good Google search using the term "webpages". Even "asp.net webpages" brings back mostly webform results. I have more success using "webmatrix" or "razor".
Can't recommend any documentation but here is an introduction to Web Matrix on mikesdotnetting.com blog where he has blogged quite a lot about Web Pages with Web Matrix.
We have two production sites, developed using Web Matrix. One serves our customers, the other is an intranet for our staff. They've been running in production for almost a year. I'd say about 95% of the sites were developed purely in WebMatrix IDE with about 5% going into Visual Studio, especially for the occassional obscure debugging. We're happy with WebMatrix / Web Pages. I didn't use WebForms because I was concerned about WebForm's ability to do really lightweight pages, since many of our users are using cellular data on iPads or iPhones. I didn't use MVC because of the additional complexity, since many of our pages are just showing the user read-only data from our production database. Because WebMatrix gives you access to the complete ASP.NET library, I haven't felt held back at all.
We are currently converting our ASP pages to Web Matrix. We tried to do conversions using WebForms a few years ago, only ending in frustration. After a small learning curve on the C# and Razor syntax, our development staff feel that we made a correct decision in going with Web Matrix.
I have experience in javascript, html(Bronze certified), css(Gold certified), sql and xml(Bronze certified), and now have turned my attention towards server side scripting. I have little experience in php but have no Idea what to choose between MVC and ASP.NET Web Pages. I like all the features that ASP.NET Web Pages(Since I already new a little about server side scripting, so getting started was not that difficult and I know a few basic things.) have like, automatic form authentication among others but I seriously doubt that it can never be by-passed. Still, for safety I use my own algorithms against sql-injection and javascript codes. But, now I am confused what to learn, MVC or ASP.NET Web Pages. All the posts I searched on internet where for new programmers. Since I am not new they are no use to me. So what should I learn MVC OR ASP.NET Web Pages and why?
*English is not my native language, there may be some grammatical mistakes.
You are kind of asking what's the better option, apples or bananas. MVC is a pattern and allows you greater control over what HTML is sent to the browser whereas Web Forms has a great number of pre-made controls that do all the hard work rendering out html to the browser (but often less control of how it is rendered out)
It's also down to preferences, I personally prefer MVC as the unit testing and component nature of it give me great flexibility. Alternatively, using WebForms you can create some things quickly using drag and drop controls.
Hope that gives you a bit of useful info. I'd recommend reading up about both, and seeing which fits into your style of programming and go from there, but there's nothing stopping you learning and using both (just don't use them in the same project, lol)
Has anyone successfully used a CMS developed for standard ASP.NET with ASP.NET MVC?
I currently use Immediacy CMS and it seems to be quite tightly coupled with standard ASP.NET, but I'd really like to start using ASP.NET MVC.
Are there any CMS systems out there directed at MVC?
How could I persuade my employer to move to ASP.NET MVC?
I suggest take a look to Kooboo (kooboo.com), a simple to use but powerful for developers. Well documented API and based upon ASP.NET MVC (of course ;-)
N2 CMS has an example site in ASP.NET MVC that I've been playing around with that works quite nicely - note that the code is now hosted on Google Code.
The problem you've got is that many CMS' already do a lot of "routing" in that the pages you are requesting/editing don't actually exist on disk, but are all in a data store of some kind, and there's an HttpHandler or ISAPI Filter sitting in front of ASP.NET to intercept the requests and work out what should be happening.
I have not personally seen any of the big name CMS systems out there upgraded yet to take advantage of many of the new things the .NET framework offers, let alone start working on the MVC framework.
As with all things, a cost-benefit analysis is the best way to convince your boss to do anything. If you can point how how moving towards the MVC framework is going to make some immediate positives (as well as many long term positives) that can outweigh the costs (in time, energy, and money) in the switchover, then you have succeeded.
ASP.NET and ASP.NET MVC are very different beasts in terms of how you develop applications on top of them. Technically, an ASP.NET MVC application is an ASP.NET application with some generic handler that invokes the core MVC framework.
The ASP.NET MVC framework is also relatively new (1.0 just released last MIX) and so it'll take a while before becoming mainstream.
How you can persuade your boss? Talk to him about the positive sides of ASP.NET MVC, and how it will improve his future business. There's plenty of material available to demonstrate that.
I do a lot of work using Immediacy (I used to work there) and I had thought about doing the same thing a couple of months ago. I think that the main issues would result from things like the plug-in handler, the idoc handler and (if your still using it) the ilink hander.
When you enable things like friendly URLS I think this would cause issues if you had similar named methods in your controller actions.
You may be able use some MVC in your project, I could see it working as an admin add-in but I couldn't see it being used to usefully in the main webroot.
I would think a CMS would have to be built using MVC in mind to get the most benefits from using the pattern, instead of trying to make it work in parallel with a pre-existing system API (limited as it is) and making more work for yourself.