I've just finished skinning an xcart for a client and he has dropped me an email letting me know that he has been speaking to an iPhone dev company who are going to build a social networking app on top of Drupal for him.
He wants to know if xcart will be able to share data from Drupal and vice versa. In particular, they want a registration on one platform to be accessible by the other, this could also go so far as either site accessing information about shopping habits or social interactions to push features/products of the other system etc
This is my first time touching xcart and I have zero experience with Drupal, however, I have done a little research and I've seen there is an ecommerce module for Drupal. As the xcart system is not live (and is now on hold until the app has launched), would it be quicker, easier, cheaper (in dev hours) and more future proof to scrap what we have already done with xcart and just re-skin the store on the Drupal ecommerce module?
I took a look at xcart and it seems like just another similar shopping cart as zencart/similar spaghetti code. It's fine if all what you need is there, but if you need to extend or modify existing behavior, it will become a nightmare.
You should go with Drupal for several reasons:
Less headaches - you need only to learn Drupal, not both systems
Drupal will offer most of the options you will need; both Ubercart and Commerce have plenty of features so I doubt you will miss something
You don't have xcart ready yet so it will be "cheaper" to leave it now and switch to Drupal
Integrating 3 systems vs integrating 2 is still a huge difference, especially as you aren't skilled with either xcart or Drupal
I don't know the exact requirements of your shop, but I'd say to go with Ubercart first and see if it fits you. It's much easier to understand for first time users, has mature community and many additional modules which offer extra functionality.
Commerce is mainly for people who have a lot of experience with Drupal and understand main concepts. Everything there is lifted into another "layer" of abstraction which will be hard to understand for a new programmer. Also, often you might find yourself in a situation where you have to get your hands dirty and debug with other modules, and it might be a pain and take too much time.
Related
I have been planning a little side project of mine for a while now. Since the beginning I had planed on writing a CRUD application from scratch myself. Now after having a little more experience with web programming I think I would save myself a ton of time by using a CMS but being unfamiliar with these systems I do not know if I can do what I need to.
Users will create a profile.
Users will upload images.
Some users will be selling their products, others will be buying them. I will take a percentage. Think ebay without bidding.
Many javascript and php features such as image rotators and an app so users can crop their photos.
Will be integrating Facebook API.
Main reason I am considering a CMS is not to save time, but to make a safer website. I am not experienced with eCommerce and do not want to put my users at risk. Everything else mentioned I can and have done.
Use CMS like Drupal or just start from scratch?
Most of the CMS have the basic functionality you've mentioned in 1,2 and 5.
You'll have to write your own extensions for 3 and 4, or search for existing one that fits you.
Writing an extension for CMS will take less time than writing entire CMS from scratch.
If you want safe and stable code, then it's better to use existing CMS.
I agree with w3b4 that an open source CMS will save you time and give you major security and support advantages.
My experience of open source CMSs only extends to WordPress. I am sure you could make it do all the things you want with a bit of work, but my gut feel is that it might not be the best platform to start out with if you main requirement is buying and selling.
However before you strike it off your list, check out the wp-ecommerce plugin and its various add-ons. This product has developed a lot in recent years and might offer what you need out of the box.
I need to develop a newspaper site in Drupal, I've already played around with Drupal a little, and I think I know which modules would best suit my purposes. Naturally, one of the modules I'll be needing to use most is Views, but I have a couple of questions:
Because this is a content-intensive site, I was wondering if using 5-6 views on each page to generate node teaser + thumbnail lists would impact performance adversely?
I am a designer with significant front-end development experience. Like I said I've played around with Drupal quite a bit and other than running into a few hurdles which I eventually overcame, for the most part I was able to get it to do what I needed it to. Having said that, does one also need strong programming skills to fully develop a site in Drupal?
Thank you very much for your help!
Jane
Views offers caching and Drupal also has block caching, which should help you improve performance. The SQL that Views generates is never as good as handwritten SQL, but if you make simple Views, the SQL is actually quite good and not a performance problem (unless you have millions of page views).
If you can create the features you need, with modules from Drupal.org, you don't need strong developer skills. But you do need to know some PHP to make a Drupal theme which is what controls the layout of the site. It will also be a great help, in understanding the Drupal theming system, but not a requirement.
First off, check out openpublishapp.com for a Drupal distro that is made for publishers from the ground up, it's pretty hot.
To answer your questions:
1) As far as performance and views goes, having 5-6 views on a page is a normal requirement for a drupal news site and the performance issues are usually handled by views/panel cache, and using a page cache like Varnish in front of a web server, Object caches like Memcached (for the DB) and opcode caches like APC...if you don't want to learn all that off the bat you should still be fine if your traffic isn't too intense (but go sign up at getpantheon.com for awesome hosting with all of that and the kitchen sink, and check out groups.drupal.org/pantheon)
2) If the functionality exists by way of core/contrib modules, to fully develop a site for the most part one only needs to understand enough PHP to theme, and often with starter themes like Fusion, and some of the others you hardly even need that, just an understanding of how they work and are extended (which is well documented). That said, if you want functionality that doesn't exist, you'll have to code it, or have someone code it for which strong programming skills are desired, but not necessarily required :)
Even I recommend the use of the OPENPUBLISH - https://www.acquia.com/solutions/publishing
On top of to this you can make an efficient usage of
1. APC - PHP byte-code caching
2. Drupal Caching - block/template/view level caching
3. Boost - Caching module which doesn’t need any external tools
4. Varnish - HTTP accelerator
5. Memcache - Data intensive content.
Apart from this you will also need to think effectively on deciding on DEPLOYMENT ARCHITECTURE of the site - preferably Acquia or Amazon environment.
Learning curve may vary depending on your current skills in PHP or Drupal. Usage of already established distribution like OPENPUBLISH may help you to minimize the dependability on too much custom coding.
I have never used DotNetNuke before. I'm thinking about giving it a try to help me build websites, and I'd like to hear from other developers who are in a position to compare DotNetNuke with other CMS's/Web Application Frameworks.
I have used both DNN and Drupal to build fairly large, content-based sites. My focus is more on the production side... UI/themeing, module configuration, etc. I'm sold on Drupal, but there may be other choices that meet your needs just as well. I just happened to work with both systems in recent months.
Drupal's core taxonomy module gives you the benefit of creating a relationship between different kinds of content. If you have "article" and "video" content types, you can easily display data from both types based on the shared taxonomy terms. This is huge and something DNN lacks.
Drupal's hook system is also a big benefit when building your own modules or creating "sub-modules" to alter or add to the default functionality of an existing module. This allows you to customize functionality or take advantage of another module's functionality as your application runs. If you purchase a module for DNN, you will have to alter the module if it doesn't meet your needs. Once you do this, you will need to update it each time there's a new release that you would like to take advantage of. DNN modules seem to be more stand-alone solutions. For example, if a DNN module has a rating system, it's only a part of that solution. With Drupal, I can use the "5 Star" rating module in my forums, my blogs, my articles, my videos, etc. There's central configuration for it and I only theme it once.
The themeing layer in Drupal also gives you a large amount of flexibility in that process. My frustration with themeing DNN sites was that I was stuck working with the markup the developer used, with no option for altering the output without hacking the module. With theme hooks and function overrides, I can change the output from those modules to meet my needs (not completely sometimes, but enough), without touching the module code itself.
The biggest problem I had with DNN modules, including some of the most popular, was just a lack of documentation or discussions available for how to achieve your goal. While Drupal's forums can be hard to navigate and you might not always find the answer you are looking for, there are many outlets for gathering information. Honestly, using DNN made me appreciate the community approach of Drupal more.
I was left feeling that DNN would be fine for building sites with more basic needs. But for that, I would still choose something like WordPress or Joomla, considering they have much larger user bases and, in my opinion, are more sophisticated.
Hope this helps you some.
DNN is a pretty good .NET solution for CMS. If you want more flexibility, I would look at SiteFinity for .NET CMS systems. This is a very flexible and elegant CMS for .NET
If you venture out of .NET and want to look at PHP solutions, then DRUPAL, JOOMLA, and WORDPRESS are best solutions. Some comments about each:
WORDPRESS - Is the simplest and most elegant CMS to work with. Originally a blogging software, it has a super-easy user interface, although that also reads as more limited power and features. It's excellent for content driven websites and templates are easily built.
DRUPAL - Is very flexible and configurable, but I find it more complicated than the others. The Admin interface requires more programming knowledge to pull off and adding components and extras is a little more complicated. But, DRUPAL has been proven in the business and government world as a secure and reliable CMS.
JOOMLA - Is my personal favorite. It is also very powerful and I prefer the Admin. interface. Joomla allows for much flexibility and has the most user created modules and plug-ins out there. You have to invent near nothing with this one. I am biased in favor of Joomla, because I use it the most. That said, it has limiting factors against DRUPAL, such as user security features. But this is being fixed in the next upgrade.
Hope that helps as well.
I have development experience using both DNN and Drupal to build content-rich websites. My preference is Drupal for a number of reasons:
Development time-line was shorter; I was able to produce more in less time.
Drupal has a larger and more active developer community. More resources are available to aid in development.
DNN is not actually a CMS. It is only a framework; Drupal is a framework with a foundational CMS.
Drupal is easier to install.
DNN modules cost money; Drupal modules are free.
Actually, I put together some notes a while back when trying to understand the architectural differences between DNN and Drupal. Found those notes, they are here: DNN versus Drupal. Hope this is helpful.
I experienced a fairly high degree of frustration when working with DNN and I don't believe I am alone in that regard. About a year ago, ASPdotnetStoreFront abandoned their involvement with DNN calling it a "disaster to work with".
I am curious to know what piqued your interest in DNN and if you have a specific website project in mind. Regardless, I wish you success and I hope this helps.
I worked in a .NET development shop utilizing Kentico CMS. I agree, it is feature rich and stable. The API and DB are documented well. Overall, it is a great CMS. There is a limited free version: http://www.kentico.com/freecms.aspx
I'm testing out DNN right now. So far, so good, but I think it depends a lot on what you are using it for. I've only been looking at it for 3 days, but so far I do find the documentation lacking or outdated.
I evaluated many of the different Portal/CMS systems out there back in 2004 and DotNetNuke ended up being my choice and I've been very pleased with it, for everything but E-Commerce, ever since. DotNetNuke is endlessly extensible, easy to skin, easy for non-technical folks to update, has a great 3rd party eco-system, and the development team is very active and talented. There isn't a great Articles module in the core but there are several really good ones available from 3rd parties for a reasonable price.
I tried using Joomla a few years ago and hated it. Wordpress is good for a blog style site but doesn't have nearly the power or flexibility of something like DNN. I am intrigued by SiteFinity, Umbraco, and Kentico for sites where all that's really needed is a CMS, but not enough that I've bothered trying them over DNN.
Another good .NET solution - from what I've read - is Umbraco.
Take a look at Kentico CMS. It's commercial, but still affordable. In my experience from dozens of projects on both CMS, Kentico is much more feature-rich, stable and well documented.
I was trying to learn a little about JAVA frameworks like Spring. I hit view source on springsource.com and it's totally Drupal (a PHP CMS).
What's up with that? You would think they would build the site in their own framework, huh?
Because Drupal's more geared to a site of that nature, as it's a content management system instead of an application framework. It has modules for just about everything they wanted to do.
As Colin says on this page:
We have a very finite amount of resources which are frankly better spent on enhancing parts of Spring that are of use to the largest audience, not on modifying or implementing a CMS. While we did have to spend a decent amount of time tweaking the theme to our satisfaction, and inputing the old content, equivalent or more effort of this type would have been requiered with any solution. On the other hand, Drupal out of the box comes with all the functionality we need, so we didn't have to spend any of those scarce resources on development or customization of the product itself. It's that simple.
I think they figured that there was more value in servicing clients than writing a CMS for their web site. Springsource was (is?) a small company that cared about billable hours. I think going with this software was a good business move.
We want to build a web application, that is specific to our domain, but also includes forums, blogs, etc in this application. Some integration points to Twitter and Facebook are also required.
There will also be a desktop application that connects to our web application for uploading data and downloading configuration and reports.
The question is, can we extend Drupal to host both the regular modules and our web application? (There will be business entities and their properties and daily data uploaded from the desktop application)
Or can Drupal be integrated with external applications? As an example, users and roles need to be the same and consistent across both. We may also want data from the web application searchable in Drupal.
I know this is a bit vague, but I cannot reveal more. I am very new to content management and I just wanted to know if someone has built this kind of application.
I try to rephrase what you wrote, just for you to check that I got your question right. You basically need to create a web application that:
Implements some of the standard functionality of Drupal
Have some custom functionality that should "blend into" the Drupal one (same users, same permissions, etc...)
Be able to upload/download content (or data) from desktop applications.
If I got you right, the short answer is: yes, you can do that with Drupal.
Now for the extensive one:
- Drupal has literally thousands of modules, so I expect you to get most of the things you want by simply installing the right combination of readily available modules.
- Of course, any custom functionality can easily be implemented in form of a module too (quite standard thing these days).
- The interaction with a desktop application is normally implemented via webservices rather than querying the DB directly. Drupal comes natively with a xmlrpc server and client, but you can scale up to SOAP - if you wish - via a couple of contrib modules.
Some additional thoughts:
If you choose to use Drupal, and you start from scratch, then you have to be aware you and your team will need to dedicate some time and effort to understand how Drupal works. Although - differently than Palantir - I stuck with Drupal, I agree with her/him on the fact that Drupal gets complicated complex right off the bat. This is the trade-off you have to pay in order to have a platform that - rest assured - is very flexible, extremely pluggable and rock-solid (otherwise it wouldn't have been used to redesign the whitehouse, nor Drupal would have got for the second year in a row the "best PHP CMS" award, I suppose).
The good news is: there are some excellent books out there, and I would certainly recommend "Pro Drupal Development" for an in-depth and all-around explanation of the system. Just be sure to get the 2nd edition, as the first deals with the now obsolete 5 seres. That said...
A very good thing about Drupal, at least in my opinion, is that most of the tweaks you might need to do to an existing functionality can be implemented by hooking into the original code from a custom module too. This IMO is the biggest advantage of Drupal: you never have to touch other developers' code to achieve your goals, and this means - for example - that you will be able to keep your core and contrib modules up-to-date without breaking any customisation you might have done.
Drupal is heavy. Compared to other CMS it sucks plenty of processing power and RAM from your server, and - unless you are going to have a very small site - I recommend to deploy it in conjunction with nginx, rather than Apache.
Drupal scales well, thanks to a good mechanism of caching and "throttling up" mechanisms. Strange as it might sound, Drupal scales very well on large traffic websites, so that big increases in traffic do not necessarily imply big increases in resource usage.
The user experience out-of-the-box on a Drupal site is quite poor. There is a massive work being done on this at the moment (here and here (video)), but improvements won't be available until D7 is released [soon, but then you will have to wait for the modules to be ported], so it is advisable to allocate some time to create an administrative theme, if the admins of your website won't be of the technical type.
At the end of the day, my advice is: if your site is going to go big / complex / with complicated business logic and lots of functionality, then Drupal is probably a good candidate. If your site is contrarily a small-scale one with standard functionality plus a few custom bits, maybe Wordpress / Joomla could fit your needs better [not because they are 'less powerful' but because Drupal strengths would be unused in this case, while Wordpress/Joomla simpler architecture would probably represent an advantage in this scenario]
Other options would certainly be frameworks like CakePHP or Django, for example, but that - IMO - is a totally different approach to the matter, I would say.
Short answer: Drupal is well suited to build something like that, especially if you are willing to integrate your app/logic into Drupal as a suite of custom modules. The other way, integrating Drupal into an external application, can also be done, but will give you more friction, as Drupals architecture is pretty much geared towards being a framework in its own right.
Longer answer: I have a pretty much opposite opinion/experience compared to Palantirs. I've been working almost exclusively with Drupal for a year now, in the context of two fairly complex/'enterprisy' projects (after several years of 'on the side' usage for smaller things). While I agree that it imposes some rigid rules (but not limits!), I consider this to be an advantage, as those rules give a clear guidance and provide proven ways on how to do things. The three parts Palantir mentions are good examples for this:
Menu system - Provides a well structured and effective dispatching mechanism that is easy to extend with your own stuff, while giving huge flexibility to tweak/manipulate existing/default paths. (Note that 'menu system' in Drupal denotes the whole topic of managing your URL space, not just the subset of 'visible' menus that is usually associated with the term)
Forms API - A declarative approach to web forms, with a well designed processing workflow and a whole lot of built in security features that you would otherwise have to take care of yourself. Also highly extensible, with straight options to adjust/extend already existing forms on demand, add new validation rules to any field or whole forms, multi step forms, javascript based form adjustments, etc.
Translation system - This is pretty complex, simply because internationalization is fricking hard to do. But it is built in, again giving clear guidance on how to do things in order to work in a generic way (though there are problems with quite some contributed modules that are not using/supporting it the way they should).
I could give more examples for parts where I appreciate the 'rules', but this post is getting long already, and I still have to cover some downsides ;)
So to sum up the positive part - if I where given the rough specs you posted, I'd say 'no problem' and go with Drupal, being confident that it would be a solid foundation for the custom parts, while providing all the 'standards' like forum, blogs, twitter/facebook integration and many, many others in the form of already existing solutions (even though those might need some adaption/tweaking).
Downsides: As always, there are flaws, and some of them are substantial, depending on requirements/circumstances.
Learning curve - Drupal is quite complex, and 'grokking' its concepts takes time. 'Playing with it for a week', as Palantir suggests, will certainly give you a general feeling/broad impression, but it is in no way enough to allow for a serious judgement of its pros and cons, as those will only surface while coding in/for it. So if you are already deeply familiar with an established web development framework, this might be an issue. If you have to learn one anyways, this should be less of a problem.
Database restrictions - As of Drupal 6, database support is MySQL or PostgreSQL only, using a Drupal specific 'abstraction layer' (which obviously isn't one ;)
Drupal 7 will move to PDO, which should (finally) end this questionable state.
Test/Stage/Production migrations - Parts of Drupals 'out of the box' flexibility are due to many things being configurable in the administrative backend, which implies that many important configuration settings are stored in the database. This makes migration of data and/or configuration between several instances pretty difficult/tedious, once you left the (early) stages of development where you can get away with complete dump/restore operations (see e.g. this question & answers)
These are the main ones for me, but you'll probably find more :)
I worked for over a year using drupal extensively, but I ended up abandoning it. Drupal, and other CMS systems out there, have very rigid limits and rules. I'd use Drupal for projects where you have simple requirements and few or no business rules. Drupal gets complicated almost immediately when you want to do complex things (especially pay attention at the menu system, forms, and the translation system if you need to be multilingual).
If your system will really be large, with all the things you mentioned, then I'd rather use a PHP framework to implement your business logic, and integrate external products as they fit (a forum, a blog, a twitter client, etc...).
But the advice is: don't trust anyone :) Download it, and play with it for a week. You'll be able to make your mind and be more confident about your choice!
As Drupal is open source, you can pretty much do as you wish with it. A couple of points though:
Changing Drupal's user/role structure would be tedious and unnecessary. You would need to have your desktop application authenticate from Drupal's MySQL database.
Drupal has hundreds of plugins for just about everything, so Drupal could no doubt run the whole "web" side of things including visitor stats etc. You would just need, again, to connect your desktop application to the correct MySQL tables and show the data as desired.
Don't forget to check other content management systems such as Joomla! (and many others). Each has its pros and cons. www.opensourcecms.com allows you to easily test CMSs and I've used it extensively in the past.
Just be sure to map out all the components first. Every hour planning up front saves many hours of headaches later.