Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations by editing this post.
Closed 4 years ago.
Improve this question
I've spent a few hours already studying some CMS solutions for one of my customers' new business...In the end, I've taken in consideration these two: DotNetNuke and Composite C1.
I know all of these have a lot of features, a lot of capabilities etc.
What I would like to know:
is overhere any .NET guy who have worked with both of these? (if yes, can you please share your opinion - PRO and CONS?)
if for some reason I do need to add some new ASP.NET code (for some custom things), which of these two is better for this?
You should definitely go with Composite C1. I have been using DotNetNuke for many years and been very frustrated due to its limitations.
Below I have summed op what I think is best/worst for both CMS products (note: it's been two years since i set up a DNN site, so I do not know if there has been any improvement):
PROS for DNN
List item
VERY simple administration interface.
It is possible to edit pages directly by simply clicking on content when you are signed in.
Huge user/developer base - many extension modules available. Many of them for no charge.
CONS for DNN
The simplicity in DNN is basically the root for all cons;
Hard to extend - you have to develop packages for DNN with your specialized code or generate user controls in .NET (.ascx) files.
Difficult to skin
A lot of overhead related to webforms AJAX files (100+ kb without compression)
No build-in nice urls (but easy to find extensions enabling nice urls)
Relies on SQL-database ( = additional costs)
PROS for C1
Easy installation and setup.
Can run on file system only (and easily be upgraded to SQL support).
Build-in package manager with easy to install extensions.
Support for MVC, XSLT, Webforms and the best: Razor syntax!
Specialized code can be developed easily due to great API.
Great templating support. Can be made very simple and very advanced depending on your skills.
Nice URLs in the 3.0 releases.
Easy to set up multi-site support.
Supports Windows Azure out of box.
CONS for C1
Based on XML for data storage (can cause problems if server shuts down unexpectedly etc. - I have not experienced this)
THe many features in the backend can be a little overwhelming.
Backend takes quite a while to load because it is build like a webapp.
Not as large user base as DNN
Bottomline; Composite C1 is far better than DotNetNuke. Specially if you want to add custom code/functionality.
If you want even more functionality and a more mature CMS than Composite C1 you should take a look a Umbraco. It is open-source just as C1 and of course developed by great Danes ;)
I have quite some years of experience with DotNetNuke.
Avoid it at all costs. I'm serious.
Edit: Since I'm being asked about my reasons for this bold statement, I'll try to provide them.
The company I worked for had around 300 clients on DNN. Many of them were rather large corporations. I have a lot of epxerience with DNN.
First of all, DNN is riddled with bugs. Bugs that are never fixed. Instead, the guys behind DNN seem to be concerned more about introducing new features than providing stability. I've personally submitted a boatload of bug reports to their tracker. How many were fixed? Virtually zero. In most cases I even took the time to provide a patch! To no avail. When they made the switch to C#, they simply closed most of the open issues because their laziness began to bite them in their ass. "In order to better manage and assess issues for fixing, any issue that has not had any activity logged previous to January 1st, 2011, will be auto-closed. " (See here)
I've been bitten by so many bugs in those years. It was a rather frustrating and unsatisfying experience.
Secondly, new features are usually problematic and faulty. DNNCorp also often decides that these new features are not that important and subsequently abandons them for new features. For instance, their taxonomy module has some serious issues when you set up multiple portals and try to use system-wide vocabularies. To my knowledge this hasn't been fixed yet. Their MetaData / ContentItem / ContentType API had some serious problems for a long time and probably still has. It's not even really used for anything, even tho it could alleviate some of the problems that I describe later down (architecture).
Thirdly, their documentation just sucks.
More importantly, I think DNN's architecture is rather outdated. It carries a lot of old baggage. Their tab / module approach makes it very hard to create structured content and make relationships between content items. As soon as you try to create complex web sites, it falls flat on its nose. Not just from a programmer's perspective, but also from the perspective of a content administrator.
The overall impression is that these people are a) not very good programmers and b) don't know what they are doing.
I have worked with both CMS systemes (and many others) and I would recommend you to use Composite C1.
It is in my experience much easier to learn and much faster to be productive in Composite C1. The UI is much better (prettier and eaiser to understand). They have lots of good resources on their website. In my POV the most powerfull feature of Composite is that you don't have to bother about the datalayer - you just create your datatypes as classes or in the GUI and a 'ORM' just make the whole thing happen. That is if you even need datatypes (changes are you don't if it's a simple website).
They're both free and open source. DotNetNuke have a lot more modules that you can buy from third party developers, but Composite C1 still have a lot of what you need.
It's easier to develop new modules in Composite just because of the whole 'ORM' concept.
Only downside I can think of when I compare these to systems is that extranet functionality (logged in users that are not admins) is built into DotNetNuke. This is a module that you have to buy from Composite or develop yourself.
Composite C1 is the best out there for custom functionality and high flexibility. I've been using it for a few weeks and my site will finally be up and running because of it. Short learning curve (speaking for myself) but still very robust and flexible. Love it because you can use Razor with it.
DotNetNuke is still using WebForms and even though it's got a huge user base, but it is somewhat outdated.
Related
Closed. This question is off-topic. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it's on-topic for Stack Overflow.
Closed 11 years ago.
Improve this question
As a junior developer, I mean without great experience, what would you do for a client about an eshop? Start from scratch and handcode an e-shop(simple one)? If yes are there any good tutorials you suggest?
Or buy something ready, lets say VirtueMart templates for joomla or a similar solution for Wordpress?
Even if you described yourself as an expert I still wouldn't recommend that you write an ecommerce application from scratch unless
your client does something very specific that can't be made to fit an existing solution
your client has huge amounts of money and doesn't want you to deliver anything for months (or more)
you can offset either of the above because your business plan is to develop the next Magento and you have the resources to hire a development team and market your solution
Displaying products on the front end is relatively trivial. The rest of the iceberg e.g. security, user management, the back end (admin interface) of your website, tax calculations, shipping, cart functionality, templates, payment gateways etc. would take considerably longer.
Unfortunately, even if you deliver you would still be behind the competition when your client says: "I want feature x that I've seen on website y" and you have to quote for bespoke development instead of installing or enabling a module on a ready-made application. Unless they're prepared to spend a lot of time and money they will soon look for an alternative.
If you're already using Joomla, I'd recommend installing the Joomla + VirtueMart bundle here:
http://virtuemart.net/downloads
If you're using WordPress take a look at ShopperPress or Get Shopped.
There are many more out there (Magento, osCommerce, Zen etc.)!
The most important thing to do is to match your client's requirements with the features of the application you feel comfortable using.
I would definitely not hand code or encourage this.
It is not sustainable for the client unless him and you are going to work together for the next millennium. What happens is that in a year or two they want new functionality, and if you are available, you need to have done a very very good job of structuring and commenting your own code to remember it yourself (as a new developer you learn new things every day, and solutions I did a year ago, I would restructure today).
The even more likely scenario is that another developer, system designer or graphic designer comes along, and it will be pointless, enormously time consuming and costly for the client to have person number two dig through your code.
Your time is better spent learning solid cms-systems and improving those, rather than reinventing the wheel. There are too many sites out there that are made as one-offs, and therefore often unmanageable in the long run.
I understand that programmers wants to progam, and the temptation to start with a blank editor page, but it is not good for the client, and it is not good for you reputation down the road.
Use your skills to make unique and custom made plugins, functions etc for your client. Do not waste your time building frameworks that others have already - and most likely - done better.
..and make sure you pick a cms your customer can handle. Do not give him joomla or drupal, if he is of the sort that can barely figure out how to publish a post in wordpress.
You might take this opportunity to learn about recent Web technologies and tools, in particular non-PHP based things like Opa language or Ocsigen library or perhaps Kaya; these tools probably have some useful infrastructure for your needs.
You might also checkout ShopAlternaMart for WordPress
I'm happy with opencart, an open source e-Commerce (see my site here, if you like). There are of course many others.
Closed. This question needs to be more focused. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it focuses on one problem only by editing this post.
Closed 6 years ago.
Improve this question
This is a hypothetical scenario. Let's say you've just been hired at a company with a small development team. The company uses an internal CRM/ERP type system written in .NET 2.0 to manage all of it's day to day things (let's simplify and say customer accounts and records). The app was written a couple of years ago when .NET 2.0 was just out and uses the following architectural designs:
Webforms
Data layer is a thin wrapper around SqlCommand that calls stored procedures
Rudimentary DTO-style business objects that are populated via the sprocs
A "business logic" layer that acts as a gateway between the webform and database (i.e. code behind calls that layer)
Let's say that as there are more changes and requirements added to the application, you start to feel that the old architecture is showing its age, and changes are increasingly more difficult to make. How would you go about introducing refactoring steps to A) Modernize the app (i.e. proper separation of concerns) and B) Make sure that the app can readily adapt to change in the organization?
IMO the changes would involve:
Introduce an ORM like Linq to Sql and get rid of the sprocs for CRUD
Assuming that you can't just throw out Webforms, introduce the M-V-P pattern to the forms
Make sure the gateway classes conform to SRP and the other SOLID principles.
Change the logic that is re-used to be web service methods instead of having to reuse code
What are your thoughts? Again this is a totally hypothetical scenario that many of us have faced in the past, or may end up facing.
You missed the first step that I would go through:
Cost-Benefit Analysis
Refactoring an app because you think it feels old is not a good reason. It's still running (I'm guessing fairly reliably by this point) and your company already has a lot of time and money invested in the code.
You probably also have a team of developers that are familiar with .NET 2.0 and WebForms whereas many may not understand the concepts/code you're trying to introduce.
Before changing anything, figure out how much money is invested, how much money you're going to spend on your changes, and how much money it'll save in the future...
If the numbers don't add up, no business is going to let you proceed.
Make sure you have a complete suite of tests to cover the existing code before you go tearing it up.
Write new features using your new techniques.
Update old code to the new techniques if it needs modification because of a feature request.
Refactor old code that doesn't need changes only if you are bored and have no new features to write.
While it can be tempting, I personally would not make these major changes to the architecture of the application unless they are satisfying specific user requirements. Simply implementing these to make the application better in terms of maintainability sounds like a big risk. You may get 60% of the way through and find major challenges with getting one of these changes to integrate with the rest of the legacy application. It sounds like you'd almost be facing a complete rewrite of the application to ensure everything is consistent with the new architecture. You may invest a lot of time into the rewrite, and find that the maintainability has only improved a little such that recapturing the time invested in the rewrite will take a long time.
If it were really poorly written or in a legacy language like VB6, I would personally say it would be a candidate for a major rewrite. However, .NET 2.0 is a very capable language and for alot of applications is not crippled. From your description it sounds like the application is pretty well designed as is. It actually has a data access layer, business objects, and is layered in some way. This sounds like a pretty good application considering you can identify these attributes. Consider yourself luck that this isn't some app where it's such a mess you can't pick out anything that resembles a particular design pattern.
Maybe there are places where the things are a little nasty, but sometimes it's not pretty where the rubber meets the road and things get wired together.
I agree with other posters, dont rewrite unless you can demonstrate the cost saving benefits.
What you could do is write new areas of the system using eg entity framework, MVC and jQuery because the difference will be transparent to browser users. In time you can move the legacy code over bit by bit as you make upgrades/enhancements.
Its also always easier to implement new technologies on new system code, rather than porting existing code.
I'm planning to set up an online store for a friend, unfortunately his product line introduces some demands most out-of-the-box solutions don't fit. I'm hoping somebody here has had some experiences with an open source package that they can recommend.
The specific issue is that the products are going to number in the hundreds of thousands. Since the type of products have a lot of clearly defined specifics, searching and sorting can be (and needs to be) very granular and efficient. For this reason, the primary requirement is that I replace the product and search-related parts of the app, but only those parts. I'm hoping that there's an ecommerce solution with the product segment abstracted so that I can change the database tables, product display code, search code, and create the obvious code to interact with the database.
I'd prefer something that's built on ASP.Net MVC since it'll play nicely with some extensions I am considering for the future but I'd consider WebForms. I'd also like it to be something that functions on GoDaddy's Hosting, though I'm not optimistic, I just got the account before I discovered how terrible of an ASP.Net web host they are. And finally I need something that's reasonably mature as I don't have time up front to deal with a system that hasn't been tested, and the majority of issues worked through already.
I'd appreciate any ideas.
Edit: I've done a bit of searching already and I've found several (at least 8) MVC projects, but I haven't had time to examine them properly for the needs listed above. I also can't be sure which ones have matured from real world application...So I'm mostly looking for advice either based on a familiarity with using the app or at least reading enough about it that you would feel it's good to recommend.
Thanks Everybody!
Check out http://code.google.com/p/sutekishop/
Check out http://thebeerhouse.codeplex.com/
I've been working in ASP.NET for several years now (since the 1.0 days!), but I've never been formally instructed. I'm fully capable of doing pretty much anything I want and I've built several production-level, data-driven sites, including one that does over a million in sales a year (according to the owner). But I'm starting to get the feeling that the holes in my knowlege are dragging my productivity down. I read a lot and try to learn wherever I can to try to stay up with all the new technologies, but sometimes I just don't get it, and I think it's because of my lack of formal training.
Does anyone have any ideas on the best way to fill in these gaps without having to rehash the fundamentals?
Thanks
1) Read the Code of popular Open Source Projects. There are a few that have some really good practices in place.
I recommend checking out BlogEngine.NET. Also if you're more ambitious, I'd suggest looking at the code for ASP.NET MVC 1.0.
2) Sometimes you need to "get back to the basics" when you've been working with a particular framework since a much earlier version. In this case, it can be really useful to pick up a book that covers some of the newer features.
Here's a good book that shows of some of the new features in C# 3.0:
C# 3.0 Design Patterns
3) It may seem odd, but reading up on other languages/platforms (such as Ruby on Rails) will help you in the way you design your classes and code by taking tips of the good and bad of different platforms and combining them.
4) Read some books on general best practices and development methodologies.
Some of these books I recommend are:
The Pragmatic Programmer: From Journeyman to Master
Practices of an Agile Developer: Working in the Real World
Code Complete: A Practical Handbook of Software Construction
I'm in the same boat; been a .Net developer for 6 years. While I do have a CS degree, I don't have any formal training in ASP.Net; I learn it on the job as projects come up.
I found the best way to figure out what to learn is to keep your eye on .Net developer blogs. Some I follow:
David Hayden http://www.davidhayden.com/blog.aspx
CodingHorror.com (you might be familiar with it ;-)
Scott Hanselman http://www.hanselman.com/blog/
Usually from reading their blogs, I pick up on what the latest .Net solutions that are out there and point me in the direction of new tech I should look into further.
Overall though, I can only give you the advice I give junior devs at my company; realize you can't possibly be expected to know everything but always be eager to learn. Good luck!
I can absolutely identify. I've been programming since 1997 and really don't have any formal training to speak of. With regards to ASP.NET, everything I've learned has been through open code (Community Server, BlogEngine.NET, the other ASP.NET Starter Kits), books, LearnVisualStudio.net, and constantly being thrown in the fire.
I have a MASSIVE inferiority complex as I'm always wondering "did I do this the smart way or the inexperienced way". All I know is that my customers are happy, the errors that occur are few and are fixed quickly, and I keep getting work.
Luckily I have a passion for my work and that's what drives me to keep improving (slow though it may be).
If you're a "people person" then I think user group meetings are a great resource. I'm a bit of an introvert and unless someone who's smart reaches across and shakes my hand, I pretty much rely on the speaker's presentation to teach me something new. Probably not the best way to go and also probably why I don't go that much.
But again, I would stress the open projects, especially Community Server.
Seek out people better than you and learn from them.
Take some classes or join a user group.
If you are looking at conferences, consider finding a local Code Camp. These conferences are often very low key, but have excellent information content. They involve local presenters and attendees so you can build up your contacts and a set of people you can run things past when you need help. In addition, you might want to find (or start) a local .NET group where you can learn together. These can be hard to get off the ground, but when done well can be an excellent source of community learning.
Look for interesting ways to break your established patters - even at a loss of productivity.
Otherwise, it sounds like you are already in a pretty good spot. You can deliver on current requirements and sound like you can pick up new tricks when needed.
Really, the best way to learn new techniques is to work on a different project - even if that means changing jobs. If you have relevant and continuous experience since 2001, you should be able to pick your projects.
I've been coding PHP on a current project and it's been an interesting break from webforms. If anything, I'm getting good perspective on both models and really looking forward to doing some work in MVC.
I'll probably get some -1's for this, but as a fellow ASP.NET developer I don't think you really need to learn ALL that the framework has to offer. The reason I say that is that over the years my LACK of knowledge of all the cute little conveniences of ASP.NET has caused me to write better performing and more robust web apps for Windows. Balanced design patterns (separation of concerns) WITHOUT OVERDOING IT will make more of a "better" ASP.NET web app than using all of the controls and tools that come with the framework.
Case in point is the ajax stuff you get with ASP.NET, and also data binding. Since ASP.NET was late in the game with Ajax, I started off with my own ajax wrapper (based on an early ajax book) and then moving to jQuery. My co-workers all swear by the UpdatePanels and 3rd party controls, and quite often the user experience ends up worse and more confusing than a regular post back (and then we have to inject javascript to make it perform better and more seemlessly). As far as data binding, I've yet to find a canned control (from Microsoft or any 3rd party) that handles 2-way binding better than the framework Rick Strahl came up with back in the 1.1 days. We built a framework on top of a paper and some base classes he released, and I've yet to see something that I think handles data binding any better in ASP.NET (well...besides WPF/Silverlight...those frameworks really nailed it IMO).
So, to me, the path to upgrading your ASP.NET skills is to come up with some good ways to separate your business logic into logical components in the cleanest possible way, and learn the hell out of C# and JavaScript (and/or a JS wrapper library like jQuery). For me, coming from a LAMP background before learning ASP.NET, I absolutely love C# and Visual Studio, but I'm not such a huge fan of the high level ASP.NET controls.
This is a pretty broad question, and hard to address. I perceive myself in a similar space to you, so I guess I can elaborate on what I've been focusing on to improve as a developer which might be of some help.
I mostly write business and commerce related web apps, and my focus has been on a developing a solid understanding of separation of concerns, domain driven design, and enterprise design patterns.
Some books on general software design which I found revelatory were Code Complete by Steve McConnell and Head First Design Patterns by Freeman & Freeman.
I read SO, Code Better, DDD Step by Step, and a number of other blogs regularly.
Dissect well written code from others, and learn from them. Learn from your peers. If you're in a stifling work environment that doesn't give you the opportunity to grow as a developer, consider looking for a new job.
Learn a new language in a completely different framework - I've been teaching myself Ruby on Rails at home and it has given me an interesting perspective on the ASP.NET work that I do commercially.
Given that you're an ASP.NET web developer, learning MVC.NET will certainly help you to think about front-end development in a new, refreshing way.
If you can afford the money and time (or can get your company to pay for it), take a course at DevelopMentor. They have courses across the country and all year round. They are generally a week long and are in depth.
Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers.
Want to improve this question? Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations by editing this post.
Closed 7 years ago.
Improve this question
RPO 1.0 (Runtime Page Optimizer) is a recently (today?) released component for ASP and Sharepoint that compresses, combines and minifies (I can’t believe that is a real word) Javascript, CSS and other things.
What is interesting is that it was developed for ActionThis.com a NZ shop that saw at TechEd last year. They built a site that quickly needed to be trimmed down due to the deployment scale and this seems to be the result of some of that effort.
Anyone have any comments? Is it worthwhile evaluating this?
http://www.getrpo.com/Product/HowItWorks
Update
I downloaded this yesterday and gave it a whirl on our site. The site is large, complex and uses a lot of javascript, css, ajax, jquery etc as well as URL rewriters and so on. The installation was too easy to be true and I had to bang my head against it a few times to get it to work. The trick... entries in the correct place in the web.config and a close read through the AdvancedSetup.txt to flip settings manually. The site renders mostly correctly but there are a few issues which are probably due to the naming off css classed - it will require some close attention and a lot of testing to make sure that it fits, but so far it looks good and well worth the cost.
Second Update We are busy trying to get RPO hooked up. There are a couple of problems with character encoding and possibly with the composition of some of our scripts. I have to point out that the response and support from the vendor has been very positive and proactive
Third Update I went ahead and went ahead with the process of getting RPO integrated into the site that I was involved in. Although there were some hiccups, the RPO people were very helpful and put a lot of effort into improving the product and making it fit in our environment. It is definitely a no-brainer to use RPO - the cost for features means that it is simple to just go ahead and implement it. Job done. Move on to next task
I decided to answer this question again after evalutating it a little.
The image combining is really amazing
The CSS and Javascript is nicely minified
All files are cached on the server meaning that the server isn't cained every time it makes a request
The caching is performed at a browser level, meaning it will still work if you use an old (unsupported) browser because you'll just recieve the page un-compressed
You can see the difference youself Optimized vs Unoptimized
The price is as follows...
$499 until the end of september is a steal
$199 for an annual renewal is a steal
I love how RPO is plug and play.
It will take time to create a module like theirs and depending on work load can be worth the $750/year versus the development time it takes to re-create it.
I'm very excited about RPO and reviewing it's effect on my sites.
Something I used quite recently was page optimization module from I found on Darksider's blog. It it not nearly as intense as what RPO sets out to achieve, but a nice start block to building your own optimization module if that's what you're after.
Clarification on the RPO price. Launch price until end of September 2008 is $499 - and this discount is by voucher (email service#getrpo.com to get a voucher). This includes software assurrance for 12 months, after which you can choose to renew for $199 or not - the software still works.
The RPO automates 8 of Steve Souders/Yahoo's principles for High Performance Web Sites - the important thing for us was making a developer friendly tool - you can keep your resources in the format and structure that makes sense for development and the optimization happens at runtime.
I don't want to spam this forum with sales stuff, so just email me if you have any questions - ed.robinson#aptimize.net. Thanks for looking at the RPO.
Ed Robinson, Chief Executive Officer, Aptimize Ltd
I've been a user of the RPO since beta and have it deployed in anger on two of my sites:
http://www.syringe.net.nz (My blog) and
http://www.medrecruit.com (A company in which I have an interest)
I've done a longish winded blog post on the whole why not just turn on caching question here:
http://www.syringe.net.nz/2008/10/21/RuntimePageOptimizerWhyNotJustEnableCachingInIIS.aspx
The short summary version- Caching is a nice to have for people who aren't really geared up to turn it on in IIS (it's still not super easy in IIS6)... the real power is in combining resources as it's latency * request count that really kills your performance.
minifying and gzipping commonly called scripts and style sheets is totally worthwhile - the file size reduction speaks for itself. That's something that you can do through your webserver, without the help of another product.
However, merging scripts and styles and serving them together is an interesting idea from a general 'the fewer requests the better' standpoint.
It looks like interesting technology - I'd try it out. It almost certainly couldn't hurt.
Just had a little look, a lot of the things they offer you should be able to do yourself with a little palnning and foresight (combine all javascript files, combine all css, minify, enable GZip...
$750 a year seems a little steep, and theres no options.
(edit)
After speaking with the marketing bods, it's $499 until end of september, and renewing the liscence will be $199. That persuades me a lot more!
I'm going to give it a whirl and then see how much it improves our DEV server.
I personally have been using a product called PageBlaster by Snapsis that does caching, minification. It is primarily used in DotNetNuke applications, but if I recall correctly it can be used with any ASP.NET application, and the price is right.....