Programming tools for a physically handicapped person - accessibility

I've a friend who wants to learn web programming. He's a physically handicapped person. Actually he uses computer with a trackball and he can press keys one by one and only with one hand. So, I think that his greatest problem will be trying to write special characters that require the use of two hands (such as >,!,#, etc.). First I thought in Visual Studio (Intelissense can be a great help) but does anybody know about tools that can make even easier programming?
I know is an odd question but I'll really appreciate if someone could give me a hand here :)
Thanks in advance

Several companies make programmable keyboards, keypads and footswitches that would make for easy access to those characters normally accessed with the shift key. Some are used as supplements to a standard keyboard, others replace the standard keyboard.
They're designed so you can apply your own labels to the keys according to the functions you assign. Some have software that lets you assign multi-step macros to single keys.
Lots of examples of such products here: http://www.fentek-ind.com/program.htm (just the first page I found with Google)

Another feature worth being aware of is Sticky Keys - on Windows, hit SHIFT 5 times in a row fairly rapidly to turn it on. When Sticky Keys is on, modifier keys like SHIFT, CTRL, and ALT 'stick' until the next key is pressed: so if you want to type the ! character, you can do so by pressing SHIFT and then pressing 1, without having to press both at the same time.
(Note that Sticky Keys turns itself off automatically if you do hold down SHIFT and another key at the same time - but you can turn this feature off so that it stays on all the time via the control panel.)
Not sure how useful speech-to-text will be; it tends to be fine-tuned for English words that you'd find in a dictionary, I'm not sure that it would cope very well with either the heavy use of symbols or the use of non-english text found in most languages (eg printf!).

This answer may seem a bit late, but I hope it will be usefull to many:
A very good program to know, allowing one to input with only 2 movement (be it with a mouse, a joystick, a finger, a toe, the head, eyeballs, etc), and which could allow one to type quite fast once used to it : dasher (wikipedia page), that you can find on : dasher official site
It's surprisingly easy to learn and get into : you "aim" for the next letter, and it grows while going toward your pointer. Once you enter it, on the far side you see the next letters appear, with the most probable ones much bigger than the others (ex: "e" is usually the biggest for the first letter, but once in it, "n" will be quite big as it's a probable next letter. When you have crossed through "ente", "r" will be very big and easy/fast to aim. If you "exit" (by going above or below or by going back) the current letter, it deletes it and therefore you can select another one to replace it. See the wikipedia page for a nice animation showing how it's done.
You can have Dasher use (and train on) specialized dictionnaries to have the most useful letters bigger and therefore easier to "type" (usefull if you intend to do programming, for example. By default the dictionnary is to write letters/mails/etc)

Related

What syntactical features of programming languages are problematic for blind programmers?

What are the syntactical features of current languages that prove problematic for screen readers or braille readers? What symbols and constructs are annoying to hear or feel? To the blind programmers out there, if you were to design a programming language which was easier for other blind people to work with, what would it be like?
Although it is a very interesting question, it is highly a matter of personal preferences and likings, so I'll answer as if you asked me personally.
Note: My working system is Windows, so I'll focus on it. I can write cross-platform apps, of course, but I do that on a Windows machine.
Indentation, White Spaces
All indentation-related things are more or less annoying, especially if the indentation is made with multiple spaces, not tabs (yes yes, I know the whole "holy war" around it!). Python did teach me to indent code properly even in languages that don't require it, but it still hurts me to write proper Python because of these spaces. Why so? The answer is simple: my screen reader tells me the number of spaces, and the actual nesting level is four times less. Each such operation (20 spaces, aha, dividing by 4, it is fifth nesting level) brings some overhead to my mind and makes me spend my inner "CPU" resources that I could free for debugging or other fancy stuff. It is a wee little thing, you'd say, and you'd be right, but this overhead is on each and single line of my (or another person's!) code I must read or debug! This is quite a lot.
Tabs are much better: 5 tabs, fifth nesting level, nice and well. Braille display here would be also a problem because, as you probably know, a Braille display (despite the name) is a single line of text, usually 14 to 40 characters long. I.e., imagine a tiny monitor with one single line of text that you pan (i.e., scroll), and nothing besides that. If 20 chars are spaces, you stay with only 20 chars left for the code. A bit more, if you read in Grade 2 Braille, but I don't know whether it would be appropriate for coding, I mostly use speech for it, except some cases.
Yet more painful are some code styling standards where you have to align code in the line. For instance, this was the case with tests in moment.js. There the expected values and messages should match their line position so, for example, the opening quote would be in column 55 on every line (this is beautiful to see, I admit). I couldn't get my pull request accepted for more than a week until I finally understood what Iskren (thank him for his patience with me!), one of the main developers, was trying to tell me. As you can guess, this would be completely obvious for a sighted person.
Block Endings
A problem adjacent to the previous one: for me personally it is very nifty when I know that a particular code block ends. A right brace (as in C) or the word end (as in Ruby) are good, indentation level change (as in Python) is not: still some overhead on getting knowing that the nesting level has abruptly changed.
IDEs
Sorry to admit it, but there is virtually no comfortable IDE for the blind. The closest to such an IDE is Microsoft Visual Studio, especially the latest version (gods bless Jenny Lay-Flurrie!), Android Studio seems also moving towards accessibility starting with version 2. However, these are not as usable, nifty and comfortable as they are for the sighted users. So, for instance, I use text editors and command-line tools to write, compile and debug my code, as do many blind people around me.
Ballad of the snake_case, or Another Holy War
Yet another thing to blame Python about: camelCase is far more comfortable to deal with then snake_case or even PascalCase. Usually screen readers separate words written in camelCase as if they were separated with spaces, so I get no pain readingThisPartOfSentence.
When you write code, you have to turn your punctuation on, otherwise you'll miss something really tiny and "unimportant", such as a quote, a semicolon or a parenthesis. Then, if your punctuation is on, and you read my_very_cool_descriptive_variable_name, you hear the following: "my underline very underline cool underline.... underline underline underline!!!" (bad language and swears censored). I tried even to replace underlines with sounds (yes, my screen reader gives such an opportunity), but the sounds can't be so well synchronized because of the higher speech rate I use. And it is quite a nightmare when dealing with methods and properties like __proto__ (aha, there are two underscores on both sides, not one, not three - well, got it right, I think!), __repr__ and so on, and so forth. Yes, you might say, I can replace the word "underline" with something really short like "un" (this is also possible), but some overhead is still here, as with white spaces and code nesting.
PascalCase is far better but it implies a bit more concentration, also, since we need to remember putting the first capital letter (oh, I'm too fastidious now, let it be PascalCase, but not those under... oh well, you got it already). This was the reason I gave up with Rust, btw.
Searching for Functions
As I have already told you, IDEs are not good for us, so text editor is our best friend. and then, you need to search for functions and methods, as well as for classes and code blocks. In certain languages (not Python this time), there are no keyword that would start a function (see, for example, C or Java code). Searching for functions in these conditions becomes quite painful if, for example, you do know that you have a logical error somewhere in the third or fourth function in the file, but you don't exactly remember its name, or you skim through someone's code... well, you know, there are lots of reasons to do that. In this particular context, Python is good, C is not.
Multiple Repeating and Alike Characters
This is not a problem per se, but a circumstance that complicates debugging, for example, regular expressions or strongly nested operations like ((((a + ((b * c) - d) ** e) / f) + g) - h. this particular example is really synthetic, but you get what I mean: nested ternary operators (that I love, btw!), conditional blocks, and so on. And regular expressions, again.
The Ideal Language
The closest to the ideal blind-friendly language as for me is the D language. The only drawback it has is absence of the word function except for anonymous functions. PHP and Javascript are also good, but they have tons of other, blind-unrelated drawbacks, unfortunately.
Update about Go
In one of his talks Rob Pike, the main developer of the Go language said that no one likes the code style imposed by the Gofmt utility. Probably, no one — except me! I like it, I love it so much, every file in Go is so concise and good to read, I'm really excited about the language because of that. The only slightly annoying thing for a blind coder is when a function has several pairs of parentheses in its definition, like if it is actually a struct method. the <- channel operator still gives me moments to think about what I'm doing, sending or receiving, but I believe it's a matter of habit.
Update about Visual Studio Code
Believe it or not, when I was writing this answer and the first update to it, I wasn't working as a full-time developer — now I am. So many circumstances went favorably for accessibility and me in particular! Slack, that virtually every business uses, became accessible, and so became Microsoft Visual Studio Code (again, gods bless Jenny and her team!). Now I use it as my primary code editor. Yes, it's not an IDE per se, but it's sufficient for my needs. And yes, I had to rework my punctuation reading: now I have shorter and often artificial names for many punctuation signs.
So, calling from end of January 2021, I definitely recommend Visual Studio Code as the coding editor for blind people and their colleagues. What is even more amazing is that LiveShare, their pair programming service, is also accessible! Yes, it does have some quirks (for now you can't tell what line in the file your colleague is editing if you're blind), but still it's an extremely huge step forward.

2d terrain generation in real time

I'm trying to create a game similar to this (Note:When you click 'play', there are SFX in the game which you can't seem to turn off, so you may want to check volume). In particular, I'm interested in knowing how the 'infinite' landscape is generated. Are there any tutorials/articles describing this? I came across procedural generation, but I'm not quite sure what topics I should be looking for (or if it's even procedural generation).
(I'm using C#, but I don't mind the language as I assume the theory behind it remains the same)
That one seems like it would be pretty easy to duplicate -- I would imagine an algorithm that calculates the next "step" of the landscape (the part that is off the screen). It would need to know the prior height (and maybe even the previous slope) in order to then (randomly) increment or decrement the step. You could then tweak the algorithm to be more fluid (gently sloping), or extreme (whipsawing back and forth) as time passes/levels are completed.
Before I clicked the link though, I thought you might have been talking about voxel landscapes -- which I haven't thought about for over a dozen years, but amazed me when I first saw them. I did some googling, and thought you might be interested in this:
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article655.asp
(Not sure if the Mars demo still exists, or if anyone has a DOS machine to play it on, but this is a good example that shows what it used to look like: http://www.codermind.com/articles/Voxel-terrain-engine-building-the-terrain.html )

Windows standard for mnemonics

Are there any mnemonic standards for Windows?
For example -- the menu bar, actions on the menu bar (e.g. Alt+f to file menu but ctrl+s to do the save under the file menu), and controls.
I'm asking because we have a search screen with many controls and we're trying to decide shortcut keys to get to fields and such described above.
Is there anything official at Microsoft or some RFC document that we could read and present in a meeting to figure out how to properly handle this.
The only thing I've found so far is this -- which helps some, but doesn't go in to great detail.
Further, is there maybe a book I can get to help me with designing such things?
How does the community feel about double mnemonics? (e.g. ctrl a, w)
Thanks!
You want to look at the User Experience Interaction Guidelines.
Particularly, the Access Keys part.
Regarding double mnemonics:
I would consider these only if your users are going to have a high level of expertise. If they use your product day in day out and become very proficient with it, then double mnemonics may pay their way. But for many users they are likely to be hard to discover, remember and use. (I use Visual Studio most of every day, and I only remember and use a very few of the double mnemonics available -- just the ones for commands that I use very frequently.) In which case they would not be worth the effort required to implement them.
If you think your users may have this level of expertise I would still recommend simple usability testing, because this is not a common idiom; though "expert" level features are hard to evaluate in hallway-style usability tests. Nevertheless, as programmers we are notoriously unable to judge usability, so definitely test and measure somehow with real users before putting significant effort into this!

Breaking CAPTCHAs for a Noble Purpose

CAPTCHAs that ask users to read distorted text are fine for sighted people, but a terrible barrier for those who are blind or have other disabilities. Audio alternatives are occasionally available but still don't help those who are both deaf and blind and can be hard to use with a screenreader (which is already reading words to you).
There exist a couple of solutions that use humans to solve the CAPTCHA on behalf of the user, such as WebVisium and Solona, but these rely on the availability of volunteer operators (for example, Solona apparently has just one volunteer so you have to hope he is awake when you want help).
It occurs to me that the volume of CAPTCHA solutions needed by blind people is very low - I'd guess less than a few hundred per day in a populous country like the UK. This means that unlike the bad folks who want to perform an action many times in a short period, a CAPTCHA assistance service for blind people could afford to devote considerable computational resource - for example, a cloud of computers in Amazon EC2 - to identifying the presented text.
My question is this: assuming you don't care about speed very much, and you have lots of computers available, are there algorithms that let you solve the text-distortion CAPTCHAs that are common today, such as those used by reCaptcha? Or are these problems really intractable even with lots of resource and time?
A few notes:
At this point, my question is just theoretical, but clearly any such service would have to carefully control access to keep spammers out. Perhaps only registered blind people would be allowed to use it.
I am aware that an old Yahoo CAPTCHA was broken a few years ago using an algorithm that runs in seconds on a single computer. I am asking whether modern CAPTCHAs can be broken, perhaps more slowly and with more resource.
I am aware that some new CAPTCHA types are appearing, which ask users to identify kittens or orient a picture. These aren't widespread yet, so I'm just asking about text-distortion for now.
Basically solving a text distortion CAPTCHA consists of three individual steps:
Find out where the interesting parts are
Segment the text into individual letters
Recognize the letters
The only problem that's left which is pretty hard for computers is the second one. The first usually isn't very hard, unless you happen to stumble upon the CAPTCHA from hell. And the third gets solved by computers with a much better success rate than by humans.
An interesting site for learning how CAPTCHAs are broken is the one by the OCR Research Team.
CAPTCHA has been created to avoid machines from detecting the words. It's meant to be read by humans only. Making it more readable for blind/deaf people adds a risk of machines being able to understand them again, thus nullifying their effect.
Spammers did find a very effective way to break the more popular CAPTCHA's though. They just hire cheap labourers to read them, in return for a few cents per working account. As a result, there's a small industry around breaking CAPTCHA's to create millions of accounts that can then be used to send more spam. Compared to the amount gained by the spammers, the costs is almost none. A similar solution could be used by blind/deaf people, who would send the CAPTCHA image to some cheap labourer in China or wherever, where they will reply with the correct words and the blind/deaf person will be able to proceed. Unfortunately, blind people only need this service only a few times while spammers need a continuous flow, thus those labourers will prefer to work for spammers instead. (The pay is better.) Still, the best solution would be to send the CAPTCHA to some friend, let them read and/or decipher it and return the answer.
The ReCAPTCHA style also reads out the words. A simple speech recognition application might be able to recognise whatever is said, although speech recognition still needs more optimizations. Still, you might want to work from that angle, getting the application to listen to the sound byte instead.
When it is possible to break CAPTCHA's, they will just think of better CAPTCHA-like methods. OCR techniques are still improving thus more work will be done to make CAPTCHA's harder. That is, until OCR has become as good as the human eye at recognizing words...
An algorithm could be created, although slow. With 26 lowercase and 26 uppercase letters and 10 digits, it should not be too difficult to come up with an algorithm. With Serif and Sans-serif fonts, the number of combinations would need to be doubled, though. Still, if you try to curve all letters in a similar way as the letter in the CAPTCHA, you should be able to detect a letter which gets covered by the CAPTCHA letter the most. And that would be the most likely candidate. Still needs you to clear lines, dirt and other artefacts from the image that the human eye has less trouble to recognise than a computer. You'd need the following steps:
Clean up the image.
Detect the locations of the letters.
For every letter
3a. Determine the curve of the letter by checking the left side.
3b. Do an overlay of every possible letter/digit to find the one that covers it the best. (That's the most likely letter.)
Once you've found the word, do a dictionary check to make sure it's a real word. (Unless the CAPTCHA doesn't use real words.)
Even though they can twist the letters in the CAPTCHA's, it should be possible to detect the twist rotation that they used simply by looking at the left side of every letter and then trying to apply the same curve to every letter. (52 combinations, plus 10 digits, if digits are also used.) Basically, you'd try to put a box around every letter, then check which letter will contain the least amount of white space. That's the most likely letter.
The main reason why this isn't often used for OCR is basically the need for speed. Step 3a/b tends to be slow, especially if you have to take font style in consideration.
Making this answer bigger but in reply to one of the comments:
There are several ways to cleanup an image. You'd need some color filtering, noise reduction and an algorithm that's able to recognise the noisy lines through an image. The DEFCON slideshow that you've pointed to shows a few simple techniques to filter away some of the noise. It shows that a basic image processing tool can already make an image a lot clearer for a machine to read. A simple blur will clean up random dots and thin lines while color filters would filter away the noisy colours. A next step would be to try to put a box around every letter in the CAPTCHA, hoping the system is able to recognise their locations. I don't know any practical algorithms for this but there should be ways to recognise them. There's software that can create vector images from bitmaps, thus there should be software that's able to calculate a box around a letter.
It is likely that this box won't have rectangular corners, thus you would have to distort all 52 letters to match the same box. Italic or bold shouldn't make much of a difference since these styles are just additional distortions. Serif or Sans-serif does make a difference, though. Serif fonts tend to have a few more spikes and ornaments. Fortunately, there are algorithms that can transform a box to any other figure with four corners.
Regular OCR applications will assume that letters are mostly straight and will just check a few hotspots to find a match. Thus, they sometimes get it wrong because of noise. To crack CAPTCHA, you would need a more sensitive match, preferably "XOR-ing" the CAPTCHA letter image with an image of one of the 52 letters, then counting the number of black and white spots to calculate the ratio. Assuming white=1 and black=0, the result of the XOR should be almost black for the best match.
I think several spammers have already found some useful algorithms to crack CAPTCHA's but for them, keeping these algorithms a secret just keeps them in business.
Another comment, more text. :-)
Segmentation would be a problem, but it's not impossible to solve. It's just extremely complex. But when you've cleaned the image, it should be possible to calculate two lines. One line that touches the bottom of every letter and a second line that touches the top. However, good CAPTCHA's won't put letters on the same lines any more, but those not-so-good ones could be cracked by just following the lines. (Guess? ReCAPTCHA puts letters between two lines!) With two lines, you know the first letter will start at the left, thus you can try overlaying all 52 possibilities there until you've found a match. When you found one, move to the right for the second one. And further until you've read all letters. With two lines to guide you, you don't need a complete box.
Letters tend to use a constant ratio between width and height. With two lines, you can calculate the height of the complete letter and thus get a good estimation of the matching width.
Still, working out the correct algorithm to calculate this all is a bit too much for my poor math skills. You'd need an expert mathematician to crack this algorithm.
My answer to your question "are these problems really intractable even with lots of resource and time?" is to point out that this is the very reason that CAPTCHAs work.
My understanding is that the purpose of a CAPTCHA is to prove that you are human rather than a spam bot. reCAPTCHAs are a novel take on this theme because they take images that represent text that cannot be resolved by OCR (optical character recognition) engines. The difference between a person and a machine in this instance is that specialized algorithm(s) has tried to interpret this image and failed while a "normal" person has the intrinsic ability to interpret the text in a consistently human way. That being said, in the future we hope that someone will come up with better OCR engines so that there needs to be less human intervention in digitizing the worlds information. We hope that someone will come up with an tractable solution to this particular problem.
From your point of view of trying to make CAPTCHAs more accessible to blind people -- who still need to prove that they're people rather than spam bots -- the community needs to become aware of this issue and find a way to identify people in a less vision centric way.
The introduction of CAPTCHA has certainly made the web less accessible to the visually impaired, and I agree with you in citing this as a significant problem that deserves more attention and concern. However, while CAPTCHA can be and has been inconsistently bypassed on popular web sites, I don't think this is a viable long-term solution for those in need. Indeed, the day that the CAPTCHA variants currently present on sites like Facebook, Google, MySpace etc. can be reliably and consistently broken is the day they will become obsolete and abandoned for either stronger variants of the same or an entirely new solution (as you implied, distinguishing cats from dogs in pictures has been a popular alternative trend).
When it comes to online accessibility, what I think those with disabilities need most right now is advocacy. The more people contact software companies, open source groups, and standards bodies and speak out about this need, the more awareness will be raised and that will (hopefully) lead to more action on behalf of the development community. Ultimately, it would be great to see sites like Google or Facebook offering alternative access methods just for their visually impaired users.
Idealism aside, I think it is productive to pursue other avenues like you mentioned with the CAPTCHA volunteer network, possibly even the development of something like OpenID for those with relevant disabilities as a universal form validation pass.
As for the technical aspect of your question, I don't think the availability of additional processing power alone will allow you to reliably and consistently break CAPTCHA. There is A LOT of money in spam, and you can be sure that shady SEO companies and Spammers alike have a great number of servers at their disposal. As Johannes Rössel mentioned, if you want to learn more about how this is done and where the technical difficulty lies, research Optical Character Recognition (OCR) and look at the wide variety of number/letter skewing that occurs on high traffic sites.
This related SO question has a number of good ideas in it, including a DEFCON talk that claims using multiple OCRs and voting breaks many simple CAPTCHAs. This suggests a candidate solution method: distribute the problem over several servers, each of which runs one or more OCR tools in parallel, collect the results, and take the most popular answer. Comments welcome.

Best way to incorporate spell checkers with a build process

I try to externalize all strings (and other constants) used in any application I write, for many reasons that are probably second-nature to most stack-overflowers, but one thing I would like to have is the ability to automate spell checking of any user-visible strings. This poses a couple problems:
Not all strings are user-visible, and it's non-trivial to spearate them, and keep that separation in place (but it is possible)
Most, if not all, string externalization methods I've used involve significant text that will not pass a spell checker such as aspell/ispell (eg: theStrName="some string." and comments)
Many spellcheckers (once again, aspell/ispell) don't handle many words out of the box (generally technical terms, proper nouns, or just 'new' terminology, like metadata).
How do you incorporate something like this into your build procedures/test suites? It is not feasible to have someone manually spell check all the strings in an application each time they are changed -- and there is no chance that they will all be spelled correctly the first time.
We do it manually, if errors aren't picked up during testing then they're picked up by the QA team, or during localization by the translators, or during localization QA. Then we lodge a bug.
Most of our developers are not native English speakers, so it's not an uncommon problem for us. The number that slip through the cracks is so small that this is a satisfactory solution for us.
Nothing over a few hundred lines is ever 100% bug-free (well... maybe the odd piece of embedded code), just think of spelling mistakes as bugs and don't waste too much time on it.
As soon as your application matures, over 90% of strings won't change between releases and it would be a reasonably trivial exercise to compare two versions of your resources, figure out what'ts new (check them first), what's changed/updated (check next) and what hasn't changed (no need to check these)
So think of it more like I need to check ALL of these manually the first time, and I'm only going to have to check 10% of them next time. Now ask yourself if you still really need to automate spell checking.
I can think of two ways to approach this semi-automatically:
Have the compiler help you differentiate between strings used in the UI and strings used elsewhere. Overload different variants of the string datatype depending on it's purpose, and overload the output methods to only accept that type - that way you can create a fake UI that just outputs the UI strings, and do the spell checking on that.
If this is doable of course depends on the platform and the overall architecture of the application.
Another approach could be to simply update the spell checkers database with all the strings that appear in the code - comments, xpaths, table names, you name it - and regard them as perfectly cromulent. This will of course reduce the precision of the spell checking.
First thing, regarding string externalization - GNU GetText (if used properly) creates string files that are contain almost no text other then the actual content of the strings (there are some headers but its easy to cause a spell checker to ignore them).
Second thing, what I would do is to run the spell checker in a continuous integration environment and have the errors fed externally, probably through a web interface but email will also work. Developers can then review the errors and either fix them in the code or use some easy interface to let the spell check know that a misspelling should be ignored (a web interface can integrate both the error view and the spell checker interface).
If you're using java and are storing your localized strings in resource bundles then you could check the Bundle.properties files and validate the bundle strings. You could also add a special comment annotation that your processor could use to determine if an entry should be skipped.
This method will allow you to give a hint as to the locale and provide a way of checking multiple languages within the one build process.
I can't answer how you would perform the actual spell checking itself, though I think what I've presented will guid you as for the method of performing the spell checking.
Use aspell. It's a programme, it's available for unixoids and cygwin, it can be run over lots of kinds of source code. Use it.
First point, please don't put it into you build process. I would be a vengeful coder if I (meaning my computer) had to spell check all the content on the site every time I tried to debug or build a new feature. I don't even think this kind of operation belongs as a unit test (you're testing a human interface, not a computerised one).
Second point, don't write a script. You're going to have so many false positives fall through the cracks that people will stop reading the reports and you are no better off than when you started.
Third point, this is probably most easily solved by having humans do it: QA team, copy writers, beta testers, translators, etc. All the big sites with internationalised content that I've built had the same process: we took the copy from the copy writers, sent it to the translating service/agency, put it into the persistence layer, and deployed it. Testers (QA, developers, PMs, designers, etc.) would find spelling or grammatical mistakes and lodge bug reports. There is just too much red tape and pairs of eyes for that many spelling/grammar errors to slip through.
Fourth point, there will always be spelling and grammar mistakes on your page. Even major newspaper web sites haven't gotten around this and they have whole office buildings filled with editors.

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