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I just started at a new company that has 99% of their code written in classic ASP (most of it poorly written) and part of the reason they hired me was because I had worked with both ASP and ASP.NET in the past. The ASP.NET experience was VB.NET but I've worked with C# in college but I prefer it just because I've worked a lot with PHP in the past and when I'm not focusing I just start typing C syntax and have had many occasions here in ASP where I end lines in a semi colon just out of habit and have to go back and delete it.
But I digress, basically I just don't have the knowledge I need to make the best decisions on things have made notes of some key processes that I'd like advice on:
Version Control - truth be told I've never really used it. On my own I just never had that whoops moment to push me to use it and shops I've worked in have always just thrown caution to the wind. Would like to know what you all think I should use as far as the server side and
Local Dev Environment - Probably something I'll just quickly Google but I want to setup a local dev environment so I can test stuff without having to FTP it somewhere first.
Pushing Changes Live - I've never really understood the step between checking something into version control and seeing it live, is there some sort of automated system that can go "hey I see you checked in, let me see what's different between this and the live version and push the affected files" – possibly just a lack of vc understanding all together: (
IDE - Downloading VS2010 Beta 10 now, hoping it's stable
MVC.NET - Easy to pickup? I always hated the whole concept of Web Forms, seemed like it didn't ultimately fit the Internet the rest of the world is developing.
Anything Else - Like I said I'm relatively new to this stack so I'd love any advice I can get early on to avoid any "shit, I wish I knew that 3 months ago" moments.
Version Control:
Definately have a look at SubVersion, its free, we use a paid-for hosted service called Assembla (www.assembla.com) but you can install the server on your network. Themost popular client is called TortoiseSVN (http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/) its also free.
You can also have a look at VisualSVN (http://www.visualsvn.com/) which integrated into the VS IDE, their site also has a handy SVN server installation.
Local Dev Environment
Local IIS or Built-in VS web-server in VS are both fine, it really down to preference I think. Opening a website (File-system based) rather than IIS based seems to work quite well for us.
Pushing Changes Live
ASP is very page by page based development and doesnt require compiling, copying files up to a test or production site is quite easy. Depending on how you compile/publish your asp.net site, you will need to consider how you compile library code and publish your web application/website.
I would recommend starting off by using SVN to commit changes and to update test/production sites.
IDE:
I would recommend updating to the latest Beta version of VS2010 and use that.
Anything else:
Consider the rollout, are you replacing everything before going live?
Consider adopting an existing framework, use an ORM, or Business Objects framework, possibly even use Code-Generation. Have a look at CodeSmith, it has various ORM/Business Object Frameworks associated with it. (these will use various teqniques and technologies in the .net framework, which you will need to learn)
Look at the basic structure of the site:
Consider asp.net WebForms (Applications) or MVC (Websites) [yes, this is a very basic analysis of the differences]
Site Membership and Permissions: Have a look at the MembershipProvider, RoleProvider and build your own.
File System: Consider how and where you will upload files.
Separate UI into re-usable UserControls.
HTH, Good Luck you have a lot to do...
Wow. lots of questions here:
Version Control - Look into Subversion and Git. They represent two kinds of version control, you might like one more than the other. Git is free for open source projects.
Local Dev Environment - I would recommend using the built-in web server in Visual Studio. You can right-click a page in your solution explorer and say "view in browser". Then it will just compile it right there and open up an instance of the local web server.
Pushing Changes Live - I am not gonna offer advice here. Someone smarter than me will surely do so.
IDE - Yeah, just stick with the current version of Visual Studio. If you don't have any active (for pay) projects, I think the VS2010 is a good idea because it supports the newest upcoming features of asp.net and by the time you learn them, it will probably be released to the public anyways.
Anything Else - It's worthwhile (from getting work perspective) to know WebForms in and out. But I would highly suggest learning ASp.Net MVC (if, for no other reason than, "it's more fun").
After reading Mark Redman's answer, it triggered something for me. I would recommend (as he does) that you investigate some sort of ORM. I use SubSonic and really love it. Bu t there are lots of options out there.
Those are my 2 cents.
I'm going to focus on versioning and project tracking here. Development environments for ASP.Net are well documented.
Version Control - I use SVN (version control) with Tortoise SVN (windows client integration) and Trac (project tracking). SVN and Trac both run on Apache (a web server).
Pushing Changes Live - Commit your changes to SVN from your dev machine, do a SVN update on your test site to pull down the latest changes from the repository, run tests, then do a SVN update on your production site.
Anything Else - In this scheme Apache, Subversion, and Trac will be running on a server that is NOT your development machine and hopefully (but not necessarily) also not the same server that is running your production IIS.
Check out:
Apache HTTP server: http://httpd.apache.org/
Subversion: http://subversion.apache.org/
Tortoise SVN: http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/
Trac: http://trac.edgewall.org/
One thing to take account of is basically going from Classical ASP to ASP.NET is about as similar as going from COBOL to ASP.NET. Everything will basically need to be a complete rewrite (especially as you said there were poor development practices in the original codebase)
Version Control: Definitely use it, there's also Team Foundation Server which if you can convince the company in the value of purchasing you a MSDN subscription TFS is included at no additional cost for 5 or less users.
Pushing changes live: I currently use Web Deployment projects (not sure if they're compatible with VS2010), TFS is also a build server I just haven't had time to setup the responsibility for that. If you take advantage of TFS fully I'd also recommend looking into a continuous integration (CI) tool something along the lines of Jetbrains's TeamCity or CruiseControl etc.
Local Dev Enviroment: Get Jetbrains's Resharper! This is the number one most important tool to developing software in .NET second only to Visual Studio itself!
Anything else: Learn generics and lambdas/expression trees both are integral to proper software development in .NET and both are moderately to extremely complex topics (IMO).
Version control: I see many recomendations of SVN here but... it's just outdated. Use GIT or Mercurial. They merge algorithms are more robust. The are faster and safere because they are distributed. They are more flexible - you can construct a workflow model that suits your company well while there is basically one way of using SVN.
Pushing changes live: After you have version control, the next thing to do is making a Continous Integration server thah repeatedly checks out repository and perform automated build. You can get immediate information who and where made an error. You can make this build do anytking you want: perform static code analysis, unit tests, deployment. You can make several builds - one, automatic, that builds a project and deploys it to a testing environment. And another one, triggered manually, that will deploy to live. I worked with Hudson, Jenkins, CruiseControl.NET, TeamCity and I've found TeamCity to be the most user friendly tool of that four.
Local dev env: Althoug IIS Express (that Visual Studio built-in) is OK in many cases, you have to know where it differs from the 'real' one. I would just recommend using the full IIS 7.
IDE: Visual Studio + Resharper + Notepad++ + LINQPad.
Anything else: Have some bug tracking/planning software. Even as simple as http://www.trello.com, but use it. My favourite is http://www.pivotaltracker.com
Introduce code review into the workflow. http://www.reviewboard.org might help.
Currently our team (web devs, one designer and one copywriter) all work on separate workstations but do our changes on the same dev environment (we all mount the same shared drive), it's a marketing site and not a web application, so no builds or deployments, we just push changes to the live site once they are done, but I think it's important for us to keep versions of files, especially serverside code, even if it only makes up a tiny percentage of our content (mostly static pages).
I'd like to use version control for our work setup, but I'm not sure if SVN or GIT will play along with more than one person checking in/out from the same dev environment. I've got existing experience with SVN, CVS, GIT, Perforce and PVCS but have always worked with individual dev environments.
I'd like a solution that doesn't require us to run separate dev environments as we lack the infrastructure.
Most, if not all, version control implementations are intended to be used by more than one person. Both Subversion and GIT will happily do everything you require but you might find Subversion easier to get up and running with quickly. If you intend to host it in a Windows environment, take a look at VisualSvn Server.
The major difference between GIT and SVN is that GIT is a distributed system whereas SVN relies on a central repository. In software development, there are good arguments for using a distributed system but the needs you describe would be easily served by the much simpler SVN implementation (I think).
Another good reason for using SVN (under Windows) is that the TortoiseSvn client is one of the best examples of a user interface to any version control system. It is extremely easy to learn how to use and well documented as well as supported by the OS community.
It may also be worth investigating the various providers of hosted version control systems if you don't want the overhead of maintaining your own source control servers.
You don't need lots of server hardware. Why can't each dev/designer/etc run the site on their own computer? You do have atleast one computer each? :)
GIT or SVN in that case is just a matter of taste.
the way we used to do this at an old workplace was to give each user an account, and give the "project" and account as well. We would each check out a local working copy. the project (in your case it would be the tools that people in your business use i guess) would check out a copy too. Once the devs were all satisfied with a certain build, we would issue an update to the project working copy.
In your setup you say that you all have the same dev environment. do you mean you each have your own PC on the network, or are you sharing a PC? either way you should be able to each have your own svn accounts and local working directoires, so this would not be a problem.
Depending upon the amount of data you are talking about, an option to consider would be Dropbox ("secure backup, sync, and file sharing made easy"). It supports versioning, and lets you share folders.
It also has the benefit of providing offsite backup of, and remote web access to, your data.
With svn, you can have each submit automatically trigger an update of the live site. Still having everyone work in the same directory is somewhat awkward (as it was all the time, anyway …), but old habits die hard and assuming people insist on that, svn does export its repository via WebDAV, so it should be possible to mount it as a network filesystem on the desktop machines.
"Currently our team (web devs, one designer and one copywriter) all work on separate workstations but do our changes on the same dev environment (we all mount the same shared drive)" Adding SVN would do away with the need for the shared drive. You would each work in a local directory that is checked in to SVN. Tortoise would be a perfect client for you.
"it's a marketing site and not a web application, so no builds or deployments, we just push changes to the live site once they are done" A simple batch job (ANT script or other) could be written and given to each of you. Once the files are ready for deployment simply execute the batch and have it check out the latest files from SVN and copy to your web server.
"doesn't require us to run separate dev environments as we lack the infrastructure"
Doesn't make a lot of sense.
Presumably, each of you has a separate workstation. And your workstations are separate from your web server. Just guessing, but that's typical.
You can -- trivially -- each have a private development copy on your workstations. You can then use SVN to synchronize your various changes.
You can tag a version as "good to go".
Someone can -- when you've got everything looking right -- do an update on the web server to get the official version into production.
This doesn't require any more infrastructure than you already have in place.
With SVN you can have the devs commiting to the server, and have one special user at the server checking out the latest version. So commiting you work involves commiting to SVN, then logging in to the server and do a checkout of the latest trunk.
You can use the same pattern with git and other decentralized version control systems. The advantage with these systems is that they don't enforce the central server pattern. Dev a could for instance push to b which then pushes it to the server.
I am going to develop my first application (4 members team).I am not aware of source control tool ( Visual
source safe,Tortoise SVN).
My .NET version is 3.5. What is the best source control tool ?
Is CruiseControl a source control tool ?
Definitely avoid Visual Source Safe.
Subversion is probably a safe choice, but you will have to elaborate about your situation (E.g. how big is your team?) to get more specific advice.
Another no vote for Visual Source Safe here.
Might be an idea to get familiar with subversion as - just as others mentioned - it's widely adopted, so might be useful in the future and simply works..oh and it's free too!
TortoiseSVN integrates into the windows explorer and is both easy to use and well documented so I would give it a try.
If it's a small project of yours and you don't want to worry about hosting, I would recommend signing up for a free account at something like beanstalk, to keep it safe, without any hassle.
But if it's your first ever project, it might just give you too many additional things to learn about, so you might want to put it aside for a while.
Try GIT, it's much lighter weight than svn
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gitextensions/
you can use a local repository for just checking in your own work (to keep a history, or to keep a working version before changing everything) Or you can connect to a central repository for enterprise source control.
The company where I work used to use the SVN, Tortoise, Ankh stack but we're using Git now. Plus I use it at home on my on play projects.
(quated part is no more important since you edited your post about team size)
If you are doing some small project on
your own, maybe you shouldn't use code
versioning at all because you probably
don't need it. Code versioning helps
you with central code storage,
multi-person development code merging
(several people working on the same
file and then commit changes) and code
branching to name the most important
ones.
If I were you, and I would be the only
person developing something simple, I
wouldn't use it, because it would also
be a bit of a time-overkill.
But otherwise source control doesn't address technology like .Net framework version. Code control only stores files (with history) and is able to merge text files. Written in whatever language possible.
If you are part of a team I'd suggest using Subversion + TortoiseSVN + AnkhSVN
And No, CruiseControl is not a code versioning system. It's a continuous integration system.
If you have a pure Windows environment then VisualSVN server is a Windows version of SVN server and installs easily and cleanly. You can setup security using Windows usernames and passwords, or SVN usernames and passwords.
You can then use Tortoise to provide integration in Explorer and VisualSVN to provide Visual Studio integration (there's a small cost for VisualSVN) or you could try AnkhSVN if all you want is VS integration and don't want to spend any money. Personally I prefer VisualSVN's integration.
Running a GIT server under Windows is, umm, frankly a pain in the ass, and not a route I'd recommend for beginners. VS integration is also fraught with pain.
As with everyone else I'd say avoid SourceSafe like the plague.
CruiseControl is not a source control system, it's an automated build server. It monitors source control servers looking for changes, then checks everything out, compiles it and runs it through your unit tests, so people know if they've broken the build. Once you have source control up and running it's the next big step towards a better build environment.
Before we start talking about source control, I would like you to consider your actual need for it, if this is to be your first .NET application. Is this your actual first attempt of writing some .NET 3.5 code? If so, I doubt that you need to worry about source control just yet. I would say it's not just a little bit overkill for the first learning projects.
On the other hand, if this is to be your first application that you'll actually sell to someone, it's a completely different matter.
I currently use VisualSVN, an add-in to Visual Studio that lets you do check-in, check-out etc from within the environment. Along with it, I use the free SVN repository service at XP-Dev. It works well for me =)
Your choice of a versioning system does not have to do anything with the .NET version you are using.
I'd vote for Subversion / Tortoise SVN. It's rock-solid, has lots of handy features, widely adopted and free.
I would like to start learning ASP.NET on a for-fun project. I'm hoping to setup a local server to do my development on, but I don't want to pollute my user account with a webserver, database, and developer tools.
I'm using Vista Home Premium as my desktop OS. Is it possible to setup a separate user in vista and contain all the developer stuff inside it? (Keep sql server, IIS, and Visual Studio separate so they don't run when I'm not doing development work)
If this isn't possible can someone suggest a good alternative?
Use a virtual machine such as VMWare.
I personally don't see any benefits of creating a separate user for this. There's a webdevserver bundled with VS for development use. This only runs when you start it. And VS itself doesn't do anything unless you are using it...
SQL Server can be set to be started manually.
If you're just getting started, check out the express editions of visual web developer and sql server.
I agree with ocdecio: a virtual machine is the way to go. The nice thing, as well, is that you can take a few hours to configure your development environment and then save it intact. That way, if you ever hose it, you do not have to spend another day configuring it. Think of it as "Environment Management" to go along with your Source Code Management. The only caveat is to make sure you have plenty of RAM (2+ GB). RAM is much cheaper than time these days!
I have to agree with the above.
I have all the dev stuff on my one user account (I'm using Vista Home Premium too), but nothing runs unless I ask it too.
When installing Sql Server, you should be prompted if you want the service to start automatically or manually. Choose manual and run off one user account.
#mdbritt
This case is a development learning env for asp.net. I can hardly believe that a virtual environment is preferred for this. Nor for any other normal development environment.
Why not just create an image of the hard drive if you want to avoid time spent on reinstall and reconfigure?
I agree with ocdecio: a virtual machine is the way to go. For some things, you can even download fully functional VM's direct from MS (ie Sharepoint Development). The VM's can be a real timesaver and they're easy to backup in entirety.
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I am trying to plan a way for 5 developers to use Visual Studio 2005/2008 to collaboratively develop an ASP.NET web app on a development web server against an Oracle 8i(soon to be 10g) Database.
The developers are either on the local network or coming in over a vpn (not a very fast connection),
I evaluated the latest Visual SourceSafe, but ran into the following gotchas:
1) We can't use decentralized development because we can't replicate a development oracle database to all developers computers. Also, the vpn is too slow to let their local app instances connect to the database server.
2) Since VSS source code not on the file system, the only way to debug it is to build the app and run debugger, which only one developer can do at a time on a centralized development server. This is unacceptable. We tried using shadow folders so that every time a file is checked in it gets published to the app instance on the development server, but this failed for remote developers on the vpn.
3) Since the developers do a lot of web code, it is important for productivity reasons that when they SAVE a file, they should be able to immediately see the change working on the development server.
4) No easy way to implement a controlled process for pushing files to the production server.
Any suggestions on a source control solution that would work under these contraints?
Update: I guess since development is forced to be on the server, we need to go with a "Lock and Check In" model. So which source control solution would work best for "Lock and Check In' scenarios?
Update: Does Visual SVN support developing centrally against a development server? As in, the dev can immediately see his update on the development server after saving in VS?
I have used Subversion and TortoiseSVN and was very pleased.
Is point 1 due to an issue with your database schema (or data) ?
We can't use decentralized development because we can't replicate a development oracle database to all developers computers.
If not, I strongly suggest that every developer has its own environment (Visual Studio, Oracle...) and use your development server for integration purposes. Maybe you could just give them a subset of the data, or maybe just the schema scripts.
Oracle Express Edition is perfectly fit for this scenario. Besides, sharing the same database violates rule #1 for database work, which in my experience should be enforced anywhere possible.
As Guy suggested, have an automated build allowing any developer to recreate its database schema at any time.
More very useful guidelines can be found here (include rule #1 above).
Define your development process so that parallel development is possible, and only use locks as a last resort.
I'm sorry if you already envisioned these solutions and found them unfit to your situation, but I really felt the urge to express them just in case...
Visual Source Safe is the spawn of Satan.
Look at Subversion, and Visual SVN (with Tortise SVN). Sure, Visual SVN costs a bit - $49 per seat - but it is a great tool. We have a development team of 6 programmers, and it has been a great boon to us.
If you can spend the money, then Team Foundation Server is the one that works best in a Visual Studio dev environment.
And based on personal experience, it works beautifully over VPN connections. And you can of course have automated builds going on it.
I would say SVN on price (free), Perforce on ease of integration.
You will undoubtedly hear about GIT and CVS as well and there are good reasons to look at them.
Interesting -- it sounds you are working on a web site project on the server, and everyone is working on the same physical files. I agree that SVN is far superior to VSS and really good to work with, but in my experience it's really geared toward developers working on a copy of the code locally.
VSS is a "lock and check in" type of source control, while SVN and TFS and most others are "edit and merge" -- devs all get copies of the source, edit the files as needed, and later merge their changes in to source control, and if someone else has edited the file in the meantime they merge the changes together.
From a database standpoint, I assume you are checking in your database scripts, then have some automated build packaging and running them (or maybe just a dev or DBA running them manually every so often). In this case, having the developers have a local copy of the scripts that they can edit and merge using SVN or TFS makes sense.
For a team working on a shared copy of the source code on a development server, though, you may get into problems using edit and merge -- a "lock and check in" model of source control may work better for you. Just not VSS, from a corruption and stability standpoint.