As a novice to this realm, I am planning on building an mvc application. I had originally started a web forms application but decided the scalability and testability will benefit more with an mvc application. I chose to switch with the added benefit of being easier to add more features later on (instead of having code baked into web forms pages).
Now a little about my application, it is an application to stimulate an RPG class builder and moveset. In all simplicity, users can register for a class, and depending on other skills they can register for, they can see a custom move set based on these categories. The way I am envisioning it is I will be able to go back and add more classes and skills later in the database and have users register for this new content immediately once it has been added to the project.
Everything lives in normalized tables, so many joint tables do exist. For each new skill or class I add will mean a handful of tables will be added to the database. This speaks to the way the data will be stored, everything and all information about classes, user data, skills, etc will be stored in the database.
I have designed all the initial database tables I will need to have at the start, and functionality I need (a home page, view skills page, view move sets page, etc.). I am stuck at the next step; where do I go? Should I make my controllers first? Models? Views? Design my page layouts? I am asking for advice from people who have taken a similar organic approach to an mvc project. I am facing analysis paralysis on what to start on, knowing I have a lot of work ahead of me.
Thank you for taking your time to answer.
I've taken everyone's advise and am putting together a website to learn MVC: http://learnaspnetmvc.azurewebsites.net
The most important advice I can give you: just start. A big project can seem overwhelming, especially when you're looking at it like a big project. Instead, break it into small achievable tasks. Find something you can do right now, the ever-so-smallest subset of functionality, and do it. Then do the next one. And the next.
That said, I'll tell you my personal process. When I start on a new application or piece of an application, I first like to create my models. That way I can play with the interactions between them, flesh out the relationships, and think about the needs of my application in a somewhat low-pressure, easily disposable way. I also use code-first, whereas you've gone an created your database tables already. Some people prefer to do it that way. Personally, I find starting with my classes and letting those translate into an underlying data store much more organic. In a sense, it relegates the database to almost a non-existent layer. I don't have to think about what datatype things need to be, what should be indexed and what shouldn't, how querying will work, what kind of stored procedures I need, etc. Those questions have their time and place -- the nascent development stage is not that time and place. You want to give your brain a place to play with ideas, and classes are a cheap and low-friction medium. If an idea doesn't work out, throw the class away and create a new one.
Once I have my models, I like to hit my controllers next. This lets me start to see my models in action. I can play around with the actual flow of my application and see how my classes actually work. I can then make changes to my models where necessary, add additional functionality, etc. I can also start playing around with view models, and figuring out what data should or should not be passed to the view, how it will need to be displayed (will I need a drop down list for that? etc.), and such. This, then, naturally leads me into my views. Again, I'm testing my thinking. With each new layer, I'm hardening the previous by getting a better and better look at how it's working.
Each stage of this process is very liquid. Once I start working on my controllers, I will make changes to my models. Once I hit the views, the controllers will need to be adjusted and perhaps the models as well. You have to give yourself the freedom to screw up. Inevitably, you'll forget something, or design something in a bone-headed way, that you'll only see once you get deeper in. Again, that's the beauty of code-first. Up to this point, I don't even have a database, so any change I make is no big deal. I could completely destroy everything I have and go in a totally different way and I don't have to worry about altering tables, migrating data, etc.
Now, by this point my models are pretty static, and that's when I do my database creation and initial migration. Although, even now, really, only because it's required before I can actually fire this up in a browser to see my views in action. You can always do a migration later, but once you're working with something concrete, the friction starts to increase.
I'll tend to do some tweaking to my controllers and obviously my views, now that I'm seeing them live. Once I'm happy with everything, then I start looking at optimization and refactoring -- How can I make the code more effective? More readable? More efficient? I'll use a tool like Glimpse to look at my queries, render time, etc., and then make decisions about things like stored procedures and such.
Then, it's just a lot of rinse and repeat. Notice that it's all very piecemeal. I'm not building an application; I'm building a class, and then another class, and then some HTML, etc. You focus on just that next piece, that small chunk you need to move on to the next thing, and it's much less overwhelming. So, just as I began, I'll close the same: just start. Writers have a saying that the hardest thing is the first sentence. It's not because the first sentence is really that difficult; it's because once you get that, then you write the second sentence, and the third, and before you know it, you've got pages of writing. The hardest part is in the starting. Everything flows from there.
The other answers here have great advice and important nuggets of information, but I think they do you a disservice at this stage. I'm the first to advocate best practice, proper layering of your applications, etc. But, ultimately, a complete app that follows none of this is more valuable than an incomplete app that incorporates it all. Thankfully, we're working with a malleable medium -- digital text -- and not stone. You can always change things, improve things later. You can go back and separate your app out into the proper layers, create the repositories and services and other abstractions, add in the inversion of control and dependency injection, etc. Those of us who have been doing this awhile do that stuff from the start, but that's because we've been doing this awhile. We know how to do that stuff -- a lot of times we already have classes and libraries we drop in for that stuff. For someone just starting off, or for an app in its earliest nascent stage, it can be crippling, though. Instead of just developing your app, you end up spending days or weeks pouring through recommendations, practices, libraries, etc. trying to get a handle on it all, and by the end you have nothing really to show for it. Don't worry about doing things right and do something. Then, refactor until it's right.
As a first step in planning a MVC framework application, We should start with a strong Model (typical C# props). This process is going to take most of our time, based on the fact that we need to understand the business first and then the relationships between different workflows and entities. So times business models evolve as time passes. So spend qualitative time on building this layer, but not too much.
Once domain (Business) Models are ready, before we actually start coding for Repository classes, we should define our Repository Contracts which are typically Interfaces. Contracts help all parties(other components) to interact with each other in the exact same way. Then we implement contracts on the Repository component, which is just going to act like PUSH and PULL data from your persistent medium (say database). Remember repository component never going to have any idea on business logic.
Once backend has been established, We can concentrate on my actual business process implementation. We can define one more level of Contract which defines all business operations which are to be done using Model classes. This interface has been implemented by BusinessLogic Component which does the core business activity (specific methods for every business operation). This particular component will use Repository component to delegate business data to persistence medium.
With above step completed, We can easily go and build Controllers. We should be calling business logic component methods in controllers and get work done. Once controllers are done, we can define our views and other UI elements like partial views etc.
Pictorial representation of the flow is as follows -
A simple architecture (from high to low level)
Presentation Layer
Domain Logic Layer
Data Access Layer
Database
Presentation layer is MVC project containing Views, Controllers and optional View-Models.
Domain Logic Layer is Class Library project which Presentation layer will access (via DLL or Service reference). This layer contains business logic and rules for the application.
Data Access Layer may contain two sub-layers-
Repository. User repository is best practice for any long term application.
Entity Framework Model.
This will communicate with database.
Database you already have.
I would suggest reading through a book by Scott Millet, called Professional ASP.NET Design Patterns.
ISBN : 0-470292-78-4
Scott walks through what a good ASP.NET site should look like from an architectural standpoint - i.e. DataAccess layers, Business Logic layers, Presentation Layers, Domain events etc.
By following on from industry standards, you will gain a better knowledge of how to correctly put together an MVC web-site.
Hope this helps.
I would suggest you to make your MVC application around a ASP.NET Web API , since it will help, in case you go for a mobile application later.
Since you are a MVC newbie, you should download some open source projects on MVC shared by seniors in the community. Study two or three projects, and analyze a solution which will the best for you.
A quick googling will get you to some good projects.
e.g.
Making a simple application , Prodinner
After that you should also go through MSDN tutorial on MVC 5 app with SSO , to enable social logins.
I m working on a legacy web project, so there is no ORM(EF,Nhibernate) available here.
The problem here is I feel the structure is tedious while implementing a new function.
let's say I have biz Object Team.
Now if I want to get GetTeamDetailsByOrganisation
,following current coding style in the project,I need:
In Team's DAL, creat a method GetTeamDetailsByOrganisation
Create a method GetTeamDetailsByOrganisation in the Biz Object Team, and call the DAL method which I just created
In Team's BAL, wrap up the Biz object Team's method in another method,maybe same name, GetTeamDetailsByOrganisation
Page controller class call the BAL method.
It just feels not right. Any good practice or pattern can solve my problem here.
I know the tedium you speak of from similarily (probably worse) structured projects. Obviously there are multiple sensible answers to this problem, but it all depends upon your constraints and goals.
If the project is primarily in maintenance mode with very no new features being added I might accept that is the way things are. Although it sounds like you are adding at least some new features.
Is it possible to use a code generator? A project I worked on had a lot of tedium like this, which apparently was caused because they originally used a code generator for the code base which was lost to the sands of time. I ended up recreating the template which saved me a lot of time, sanity, and defects.
If the project is still under active development maybe it makes sense to perform some sort of large architectural change. My current project is currently in this category. We're decoupling code and adding repositories as we go. It's a slow process that takes diligence and discipline by the whole dev team. Each time a team takes on a story they tax that story with rewriting some of the legacy code in that area. To help facilitate this we gave a presentation to the rest of the team to get buy-in and understanding. We also created some documentation for our dev team that lists out the steps to take and the things to watch out for. In the past 6 months we've made a ton of progress. We don't have the duplication you speak of, but we have tight coupling issues which makes unit testing impossible without this refactor.
This is less likely to fit your scenario, but it may also be a possibility to take certain subset of features and separate those out into separate services that can be rewritten using a better platform and patterns. The old codebase can interoperate at the service layer if needed. You likely make changes in certain areas more than others, so the areas of heavy change might be top priority to move to a dedicated service. This has the benefit of allowing you to create a modern code base without having to rewrite the entire application from scratch all at once. This strategy is what Netflix has done to rewrite their their platform as they go and move it to the cloud.
Our company builds several (Java) applications that loosely communicate with eachother via web services, remote EJB and occasionally via shared data in a DB.
Each of those applications are build and maintained by their own teams. 1 or 2 persons for the smaller apps, and almost 10 for the largest one. The total amount of developers is approximately 25 FTE.
One problem we're facing is that there are some big egos among the teams. Historically the team of the largest app has set up a code convention and general guide lines. For instance our IDE is Netbeans, we use Hg for SCM, build with Ant and emphasize to first use as much from Java EE as possible, if that doesn't suffice use an external library and only resort to writing something yourself as a last resort. Writing things like yet another logging framework, orm, cms or web framework is pretty much not allowed following these guide lines.
Now some of the smaller teams go against this and start using Eclipse, Git and Maven and have an approach of writing as much as possible themselves and only look at existing things if time is short or they 'just don't feel like writing it themselves'. Where the main team uses log4j, one of the smaller teams just started writing their own logging framework.
There have been talks going on about all teams adhering to the same standards, but these have been 'troublesome' at best.
Now the big question I'd like to ask: does it actually matter that different teams do things differently? As long as each seperate app implements its requirements and provides the agreed upon interfaces, should we really force everyone to use Hg, Ant, the same code conventions, etc etc?
There is not much harm in letting each team use the technologies that work best for them. In fact if you restrict teams to the "standard" way of doing things you'll stifle innovation and have bad morale.
But you don't want things to diverge too much. There a few things you can do to prevent libraries and tools getting out of hand. The first thing is to have regular rotation of each member through the teams to cross pollinate ideas. In this way the best ideas will spread through the teams.
You can also enforce a "rule of 3", which simply says it is ok to introduce a second library, tool, logging approach, whatever. But as soon as you want to introduce a 3rd one, you have to remove one of the first two. In other words it is ok to have 2 competing logging frameworks but if there are 3 logging frameworks, choose one to kill.
A 3rd idea is to let developers run regular presentations to the entire developer group to demonstrate the pros and cons of each idea or approach. Encourage lots of discussion and constructive criticism. The purpose is to try many things and let everyone find the best way as a group.
Finally, Management 3.0 talks a lot more in depth about how teams make decisions. Well worth the read.
I've always been of the opinion an internal development group should really only be building/maintaining three applications.
An internal composite/pluggable/extendable application.
The company website.
(Optional) A mobile version of #1 for field employees.
I'm a consultant, and everywhere I go, my clients have dozens of one-off applications in the web and on the desktop for every need no matter how related to the others. Someone comes to IT and says "I need this", and IT developers turn around and write another one-off ASP.NET application, or another WinForms app.
What's your opionion? Should I embrace the "as many apps as we want/need" movement? I assume it's common; but is it sensible?
EDIT:
A colleague pointed out that it depends on the focus of the development - are you making apps or are you making a system? I guess to me, internal development is about making a system; development of shippable software products, like MS Word, iTunes, and Photoshop, is about making apps.
All of them?
Wow do I ever agree with you. The problem is that many one-off applications will (at some point) each have many one-off maintenance requests. Anything from business rule updates to requests for new reports. At some point the ratio of apps that need to be maintained to available development staff is going to be stretched/taxed.
From my perhaps (limited?) vantage point, I'm starting to think #1 and #3 could be boiled down to Sharepoint. Most one-off applications where I work (a large 500+ attorney law firm) consist of one or more of the following:
A wiki
A blog
Some sort of list (or lists joined together in some type of relationship), which can be sorted and arranged in different ways.
A report (either a Sharepoint data view or a SQL Server Report work just fine)
Or, the user just wants to "make a web page" and add content to it. But only they should be able to edit it. Except when they're out of the office, and then, etc...
Try to build any one of the above using [name your technology], and you've got lots of maintenance cycles to look forward to (versus a relatively minor Sharepoint change).
If I could restate what I think is your point: why not put most of your dev cycles to work improving and maintaining a single application that can support most of your business' one-off needs, rather than cranking out an unending stream of smallish speciality apps?
This question depends on so many things and is subjective besides. I've worked at companies that have needed several different apps because we do business in discreet silos. In that case, an internal group may not build and maintain apps, but may build several, with another group that is responsible for maintenance.
Also, what do you mean by "app"? If you broaden the term enough, then you could say "it's all just one big app".
In short, I think the main consideration is the capacity of the group and what business needs are.
I think there should be internal development teams that each has a system which may contain multiple applications within it. To take a few examples of what I mean by systems:
ERP - If you are a manufacturer of products, you may need a system to keep track of inventory, accounting of books and money, and other planning elements. There are a wide range of scales of such systems but I suspect in most cases there is some customization done and that is where a team is used and may end up just doing that over and over if the company is successful and a new system is needed to replace the previous one as these can take years to get fully up and running. The application for the shop floor is likely not the same one as what the CFO needs in order to write the quarterly earnings numbers to give two examples here.
CRM - How about tracking all customer interactions within an organization that can be useful for sales and marketing departments? Again, there are many different solutions and generally there is customizations done which is another team. The sales team may have one view of the data but if there is a support arm to the company they may want different data about a customer to help them.
CMS - Now, here I can see your three applications making sense, but note what else there is beyond simple content.
I don't think I'd want to work where everything is a home grown solution and there is no outside code used at all. Lots of code out there can be used in rather good ways such as tools but also components like DB servers or development IDEs.
So what's the alternative to several one-off applications? One super-huge application that runs everything and everything? That seems even worse to me...
I am just starting a new ASP.NET project and using the MVP pattern. I did consider the MS MVC but it is not released yet and would be a big learning curve for some people on the team, so I opted for MVP now and possibly future projects MVC.
Anyway, it seems I will have a single Controller/Presenter class for every webform I have it the project. This is a lot of extra classes, essentially doubling the number of files in the web project. Is this how other people structure MVP or what are the alternatives?
This seems to be a common misconception -> "More files/classes == more complex"
The reason we chose to follow a UI separation pattern is to help separate concerns, make code easier and cheaper to change and maintain and (big, important and) we can unit test the complex parts and still keep the UI layer slim.
I'm going with the beta ASP MVC. The reason being, that while it is still only a beta (PDC very soon, that may have an impact on release and we've had 5 preview releases) it has a better framework to support this style than I could write in a reasonable time frame.
You could of course go with another framework, like castle monorail.
I think a lot of it depends but in most cases that is really the way it ends up going.
I personally use a n-tier architecture with data, business, presentation code. (Who knows what actual format I follow). I do get a lot more files than if I did everything in the aspx, but the code is much easier to manage.
To your question - I have seen many different takes on MVP and seen nothing that reduces the number of files, and I can't think of a way to reduce the number of files.
In my experience, I have reused view interfaces and even code behinds where the view structure is identical, but presenting different data. And you could also think of reusing the controllers where applicable.
I think it is worthwhile to note that having more files will be a natural consequence of moving to a more agile and test-drive development and developers will find it more and more natural as they go. (Just like some of us find it very natural having lots of methods inside a single file...)