First there was the ASP.NET validators and we used them... Then some people on the team did things manually in javascript... Then a bunch of jquery validation libraries came out... Then MVC2 came out with attributes as validators..
I work with apps that have alot of forms with alot of various validation (Some fields needs to be compared with other values in a DB so a postball/ajax call is required) .. Right now I have a mess of ASP.NET custom validators and functions that calculate on the server side as well.
Can I get some opinions on the best tool/combination to approach this job that can create the smallest/most elegant code? Pure server side solution? AJAX/Jquery? A certain plugin for jquery?
For example, I have 2 dates.. I want to make sure that the 1st date is less than the 2nd date... Are there jquery validators that encapsulate this? My feeling is if I can get jquery plugins to handle half the more basic validation for my that could cut my code in half.
DynamicData for asp.net mvc and dynamic data.
On webforms I have only used the the asp.net validators approach. This doesn't mean to go copy-pasting all over custom validations you may have i.e. you add your own custom validators as needed and only on very special circumstances you use extra validators hooked to methods+scripts on the page.
Depending on how you structure your code, I would expect to be able to leverage some of the infrastructure around DataAnnotations. I can't give it for a fact, you know the usual issues on asp.net something usually tied up to implementation details, worth a shot if there aren't better options.
Update 1:
a v. quick search gave: http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/gilf/archive/2010/04/08/building-asp-net-validator-using-data-annotations.aspx, which is rudimentary piece - but shows a way that you can leverage the data annotations on web forms (for the server side).
Update 2: another one with the same approach as above, but does both server & client side validation:
http://geeks.ms/blogs/rcarreras/archive/2010/04/20/validando-asp-net-web-form-con-dataannotation-en-ambos-lado-cliente-y-servidor.aspx. Again rudimentary, but certainly can be used as the basis to get a more complete automatic validation based on the annotations. Note: depending on what you use you can have the validators automatically added on the appropriate places, although I must warn that it might be tricky to get it to work well if you haven't worked with dynamically added validators before
If you're using ASP.NET MVC, I recommend the DataAnnotations attributes across the board. There are "simple" ones included for required fields and length, and you can write your own custom validators for comparison of two fields and others. Phil Haack as a great article all about custom validators in ASP.NET MVC.
I usually use jquery RSV plugin http://plugins.jquery.com/project/RSV to do my validation job for the normal stuff, and i code my own jquery functions for the more complicated validation (requiring ajax calls and stuff)
and i always re-validate on the server side.
Related
Currently I have a requirement to validate(server side) forms in ASP.net (not MVC). We have several fields in our form which gets data from active directory. Instead of using inbuilt .net validation control, the requirement was to use a configuration setting for all validations, which can be easily edited.I am planning to use XML(or any other similar alternative) as configuration Editor.
Initially I thought (still thinking) this is simple task to achieve. But when I searched for similar implementation, i couldn't find one. Some of the implementation which i saw uses a very complex approach. The whole idea was to keep the validation settings as simple and as dynamic as possible.
I would appreciate if anyone can direct me to a similar implementation or give suggestions with respect to this.
After some research I found this article very useful. It introduced me the validation block in Enterprise Library 5.0 which can be customized as per our requirement.
I'm feeling a bit lost with my question about HTML5 code generation, and despite having put some efforts into my research I don't really feel much wiser.
I use VS2010 for the creation of ASP.NET pages, and I do know that there is an (unofficial) "Web Standards Update" for VS2010 SP1. Using this update I can change the settings of the "Target Schema for Validation" in the ASPX editor window to HTML5. The new elements / tags and semantics are then available via Intellisense, and I can nicely code away manually using all the fancy new stuff.
What I don't understand is how to get something like the ASP.NET controls to generate HTML5 code (where it makes sense). Is this at all possible or am I completely going in the wrong direction here? I would have expected that I do not have to "hand code" HTML5 as long as I use the existing controls (which tend to generate a lot of JavaScript in the background when the page is delivered to the client's browser).
Thanks in advance for a clarifying answer
G.
Some controls generate slightly different dialects of HTML based on the particular User-Agent. However, not all of them know about HTML 5 yet, and there's no specific property to enable HTML 5 generation, just as there isn't a property to enable other dialects of HTML.
If you want to generate HTML 5, you can do one of three things:
Create a new control that overrides the existing one, and either use it directly or replace the original with it everywhere in your app with tag mapping
Create a control adapter and modify the control's output as it's generated
Create a custom control
The controls you are referring in ASP.NET are what is commonly known as "webforms". They are basically server side controls that generates the javascript code needed to postback the data to the server, mantain the state of the controls between postbacks, and stuff like that. As you said, those controls generate too much code and a excessive number of roundtrips to the server, so it is not very recommended to use webforms.
HTML5 is mainly client side, so it has very little to do with the webforms server controls. It's a different approach than the old ASP.NET webforms. Because of this, ASP.NET is including on its newer versions the MVC framework, the razor engine, JQuery and another javascriprt libraries. MVC includes some helper classes and templates that helps you generating the client code, and many other features to support HTML5 enabled webs. So, I would recommend to start reading about it.
Anyway, now that jquery is fully integrated in Visual Studio, javascript coding is not so difficult.
Assuming I'm stuck with asp.net web forms (I'd love to use MVC partial views), are there any good alternatives to asp.net AJAX 4.0 client-side templates?
In other words, is there some way to specify some html, with placeholders for data properties, to which I could then bind a JSON result. Are there any good jQuery plugins to do this?
I ask because based on the results I'm seeing from Google, this library doesn't seem to be widely used—most search results are from 2008-2010. This question seems to confirm that suspicion.
EDIT
I despise answering my own question, but this link (jQuery Templates) seems to me to be the best bet. If anyone else has any input, please post.
Definitely consider jQuery Templates. We use them quite extensively in WebForms with ScriptServices as a data provider. There is a very small learning curve.
Also check out KnockoutJS, which integrates seamlessly.
Adam, coincidentally, I am using JQuery to retrieve some server side data calling Web Services via Ajax and binding the result on the client side. On my particular case, I am only showing data in a tabular manner, so I am using the jquery datatables plugin (which is fantastic, in my opinion; the API is well documented and easy to extend if you need to).
If you need to show data differently, I think you'll need to write quite a good amount of boilerplate javascript code.
EDIT: I just saw your link reagarding Jquery Templates and looks really cool. I didn't know it existed :) Thanks!
I've seen a few blog posts and tutorials overviewing mixing in jQuery and the UI elements for Views in a .NET MVC web app. But usually targeted at developers with a comprehensive grasp of the full dev cycle and variations of back/middle tier technologies.
As the front end developer I'm pitching a jQuery-only UI to the back-end dev - he cautions against a non-webforms interface for sake of the code maturity pov.
I'm trying to hit back with "well...it's your pattern ...isn't it elemental to MVC? No logic in the view? I'm reading that to be 'server-side stuff'. You just serialize the properties i'm asking for, or better...let me easily discover what you _can send me...i'll be able to implement the UI via jQuery UI."
So how valid is my position?
Can jQuery's grid be expected to handle at least the bottom 85% of .net's native control (low-to-moderate capacities # of rows)?
How about in-line editing? ...from the grid?
Would working exclusively in Web Services simplify his life at all? and if so, wouldn't that be logical way to build a .net-to-jQuery relationship? - ajax liaisoning twixt server (.net WS methods) and client?
mny thx
--steve...
Don't fight the platform. That way lies pain and suffering.
The MVC view objects are vastly different than asp.net webforms with server controls--you get straight up html. You get jquery and ajax basically for free, with (almost) magic server side ajax call processing.
They are designed to do what you ask. Writing your own jquery ui is reinventing the wheel.
Not only would it be a ton of extra work for no gain. You would be the only developer around trying to do that, and when you needed help, few could offer advice.
If this is an admin interface, and the client has agreed that users must have javascript enabled then I think using javascript to build widgets on the page is a better option than using the asp.net server controls. If however this is a public facing website I would argue that a pure html and css approach is much better, and then use javascript to progressively enhance the page!
Now I dont ever advocate using asp.net server controls, because they spit out poor markup and they are overly complicated to use. Instead I have been using jQuery to do the grunt work and dom querying and traversing. I also dont advocate using jQuery UI because they are missing some very essential widgets, for example no datatable, no treeview etc. I know that there are lots of plugins for jQuery but they are not componentised and therefore each plugin needs to reinvent the wheel to achieve everything it needs. Once you have included all your plugin libraries and css you often end up with a very large page footprint. Also each plugin often has a different home page and documentation that may or may not be up to scratch.
I think that the best UI library is YUI, and you can easily combine it with jQuery. Because each widget is made up from core components the overall weight of download is smaller. Also you have all the documentation in one place with 100's of working examples. Also it means working with the same set of javascript patterns across the board, so with each widget you learn more and more about the library. Hopefully jQuery UI will catch up, but personally I am looking forward to YUI 3 which for me might mean dropping jQuery altogether...
jQuery is a very mature library. It is used by thousands of people across the internet, and I dont think I have ever encountered a bug. YUI is dogfooded by YAHOO so it too is battle hardened.
One thing I did not mention to you is that I am using the default webforms view engine with asp.net mvc. I think it is still the best option as you get intellisense and also Resharper refactoring even searches your views, and the static solution anaylsis can find code errors in your views.
For building my markup I have been using MvcContrib Fluent Html but you could also checkout this article that advocated the DRY principal very well.
I’m new to .net, though I’ve been writing in classic asp for years. I know it’s time to make the change, but I can’t stand how bloated the HTML becomes.
For example, a simple menu using a web.sitemap and adds over 100 lines of JavaScript and HTML. A simple form with server-side validation adds in masses of ugly JavaScript. And a basic table of data using GridView adds in a ViewState that makes my eyes water.
Call me a purest, though I don’t like sending data to the browser unless it’s needed. And I don’t need a form-riddled menu when a simple unordered list of links will suffice.
So, set in my ways, am I destined to forgo the benefits of the Framework entirely by insisting on writing my own, cleaner code for everything? Or am I missing the point?
As a brief aside I’m a big fan of Campaign Monitor, a newsletter distribution company. They’ve written an elegant and comprehensive user-interface in .net without a single ViewState or bizarre .net-mangeled ID reference. Even the Sign Up form on their website (/signup.aspx) is as clean as a whistle. What’s their secret?
I hope I not the only one. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Try ASP.NET MVC or one of the other MVC web frameworks for .NET
If your GridView doesn't need it, then turn ViewState off for it.
Also, please edit your question to say what version of .NET you're using. Some of this gets better, and some does not. You might also want to try VS2010 beta 1, and complain about anything it doesn't fix.
Another idea would be to go on treating ASP.NET like it's classic ASP. Do it exactly the way you're used to, but do it with the idea in mind that there's about 10 years of development work that's gone into solving some of the problems of classic ASP. Once you actually hit one of those problems, find out if ASP.NET has solved it, and how.
For instance, I have a hard time believing you enjoy writing FOR loops to generate table rows. If you get tired of that, learn to use a Repeater control, or a DataList control, or even the old DataGrid control. If you turn ViewState off on those, I think you may find the generated HTML to be acceptable, and you'll find it a lot easier to generate tables and other structures that repeat based on repeating data.
You can opt-out of much of that bloat by not using all the out-of-the-box controls that come with it but I prefer the MVC route that activa suggested
Here is my list:
Keep the use of asp controls to minimum
Turn off Viewstate when it's not need
If you don't want the JavaScript associated with Client Side Validation (with ASP.NET Validation) set the EnableClientScript to False
Use asp:literal instead of asp:Label
Yeah it seems to be that everyone is bashing webforms at the minute for the reasons you have outlined above. HTML heavy Controls, ViewState, no control over ClientIDs all seem to cause an issue with people.
However let is be said that you can use asp.net (webforms) and produce some decent applications.
Control of html is yours through httpModules and httpHandlers and some of the issues mentioned above are fixed in asp.net 4.0
I just listened to a great podcast comparing MVC and webforms. Its in the area you are asking about. Also check out this blogpost by a dotNetNuke regarding the good asp.net code and why people should take a breath before converting everything to mvc.
Having said that I've tried Asp.net MVC and it is awesome. I'd probably look at dotNetNukes code to as its a mature asp.net product.
Also, when you do want to use these newfangled server controls, check out the css friendly control adapters. They clean up much of the bloat.
For client IDs the key thing to remember is to let the framework handle them. If you need to get an element on the client side, remember to emit the control's ClientID property into your script.
I've been using a template system and am very happy with it. Basically write an http handler for .html files and put tokens in the html files that regex could find in one sweep and inject any stuff. (google template c# for more info).
I tried some of the supposedly cool new features of ASP.NET for a little while. I also didn't like most of them. I felt constrained to work within the limitations of the common paradigms Microsoft had dreamed, even though I new how easy it would be to produce the HTML and JavaScript myself to do specifically what I wanted to do without having to learn how to jump through the hoops of so many new Microsoft-specific idiosyncrasies.
Anyway, I stopped using the parts of ASP.NET I didn't like on new code I've been writing lately. When I first started using ASP.NET, nothing in the MSDN documentation jumped out at me about how to avoid such complications, so I posted a couple "Hello, World" at http://www.agalltyr.com/rawaspdotnet.html to help spread the heretical word. I couldn't care less if it's the latest cool technology or the recommended technique. It's a reliable and reasonably efficient tool I can use to do my work.
Oh, and I'm not in the mood to learn ASP.NET MVC either. That's just more idiosyncrasies. Give me a language (C#) and a framework (.NET), and I'll design my own abstraction, thank you.