We are about to start a new project, and an outsourced developer has come in and insists that Textpattern is the way forward... personally I don't mind. I can develop in almost any PHP environment... but the aim of the game is that it does well with SEO.
The question is, is Textpattern any good? Wordpress, Drupal etc are all very usable, with varying degrees on tidiness on the code, but they all work. Why would textpattern be any better than Wordpress for example? I like the community, I like the API, I like the plugins... why would you want to replace WP?
Thanks guys.
They're both pretty much the same as far as I know.
WP has more plugins, it's easier to install themes for it and it's more popular. It's got a worse security record though.
Textpattern is also robust, customisable and has decent plugins (though not as much as WP). It doesn't have the easy drag/drop theme installation as does WP (last time I checked anyway) but has a better security record in general. I personally find the whole look a little more tasteful than WP which seems to try too hard but that's just a personal opinion.
Drupal is heavier, more customisable and a different beast from WP and textpattern. Your needs would be different if you wanted that.
All of them do decent SEO by default as far as I know. Alteast I know that WP and Drupal do it well. TP too from what I remember.
You should just ask the outsourced developer for concrete reasons why to use TP instead of WP. Engineering reasons, tradeoffs, pros, cons, statistics, numbers. Make it clear to him that you're not going to let the project hinge on his personal preferences.
I think they are both very capable systems, and if you already know one of the systems over the other I'd go with the one you know...
There are some differences though, these pages give quite a nice summary of the pros and cons between the two:
http://txpmag.com/article/textpattern-versus-wordpress
http://www.robspangler.com/blog/wordpress-vs-textpattern
We user Textpattern because it allows to produce simple sites really quickly from our base install template (5-10 pages, no more than secondary level navigation).
For those sites we also find it pretty simple for our clients to update. For anything bigger or more complex it can get a bit cumbersome and confusing using the Textpattern backend, so we'd usually go with Drupal or Wordpress.
Related
i am a hobby programmer with very little experience in web programming, i devote an average f 20-30 hours a week, but with summers coming i have some free time to experiment and learn. could anyone please tell me, whether a framework like (Kohana/cakePHP/CI) should be used or directly a CMS tool like drupal/joomla should be used to make a website something like stackoverflow, on a smaller scale though.
Thanks for your help.
It depends on what you want to learn. Depends on your goal.
Is it webdevelopment you wish to learn? CSS? Webdesign? Programming? Building sites?
If your goal is the site itself, I would suggest to start high up in the stack: use a ready-to-go CMS, such as Drupal, that gets you going fast. And that offers a (production ready) result in a few hours. Your downside will be freedom: sure Drupal can do a lot, so can Wordpress. But unless you move down in the stack (develop addons and such) you will have to do with what you are offered: ready made components that work according to the authors wish. Possibly not your wish.
If your goal is to learn webdevelopment in a more general way, you should start lower down in the stack. Ruby on Rails or Django are probably the best options. Simply because of their vast resource on newbie documentation. You will learn programming along the way there too. Within a few days you will have built a site according to your exact wishes (obviously, your milage may vary, depending on the wishes:)).
If your goal is development of software, Python and Ruby are most probably a good start too: both are cross-platform, have good newbie resources and offer great documentation. Both are really well (opinions may differ on this) abstraction and object orientation. They will form you into a good programmer, simply by their nature.
There's a Stackoverflow clone called Qwench that is free.
(search stackoverflow for open source stackoverflow clones)
and one built on drupal http://drupal.org/project/arrayshift
Wordpress can act very much like Stackoverflow with a proper template. See here: http://p2theme.com/ (demo here: http://p2demo.wordpress.com/). Actually you can than start editing the theme (.php files) and make it behave more and more like Stackoverflow (with reputation system etc. which should be easy to implement). This way you won't be reinventing the wheel and have a good headstart.
I personally use CodeIgniter and love it. I would recommend it to any novice looking to further their knowledge of object oriented programming, and any veterans looking to get their projects off the ground quicker. I am not going to go into great detail here, because I know Kohana and CakePHP are similar, and its mostly opinion. CI does have great documentation though.
I think learning the most common CMS is going to be hugely beneficial to you, tons of sites and companies use WP/Drupal/Joomla/Etc and it really can't hurt to understand them. These projects are very large, so you don't necessarily need to know their internal operations 100%, but you should know enough to be able to install, customize and get a site up and running fairly quickly.
Everyone has their favorites, but I invite you to try them all and see what moves you. It will NEVER hurt to learn something and not use it, especially with some extra time.
There are times to use a packaged CMS and hopefully be able to theme/customize it to what you need quickly...then there are times you will want to code a special case by hand using a framework.
Just understand the depth of the project you want to undertake, because starting from scratch is fun and rewarding, but once you get neck deep in code and get stuck its easy to lose motivation all together.
I would suggest learning the basics of HTML before diving in to using a content management system. The importance of understanding the basic building blocks of websites can't be overstated.
There are loads of resources online to learning about HTML - once you've got some experience with that, you can look at CSS, Javascript, and server-side scripting languages. Knowing the basics will help with using any content management system.
Joomla / Drupal are a good place to start with content management systems, as is Wordpress, but you'd be much better off learning how it works underneath (at least to the most basic extent) before diving in to anything else.
If you're already a programmer you won't find it too hard, but it's definitely worth doing.
I have so far been a dedicated Wordpress user, but have been researching other CMS solutions of late, specifically, looking for something that could potentially allow me to EASILY convert an XHTML site into a CMS site for most projects.
I don't care for PHP - and find adding the appropriate tags to Wordpress a bit of a challenge. I am building fairly simple sites and simple blogs - I don't need a lot of extensibility.
I have heard good things about ModX and Textpattern and have today installed them on a localhost and started playing with them. Each has a bit of a learning curve, but I like what I see in terms of their tag codes (which looks a lot more like html than php).
I'd like to design websites where most pages are distinct from one another and don't necessarily have to fit into a template. I am looking for an automagical solution where I can directly input my html, css, javascript code into a CMS platform and it spits out my website exactly as I'd imagined it. Is this just a dream?
With so many solutions out there, just wondering about other web designer's and non-hardcore developers preferences?
I guess it's like asking if ipod or blackberry or n900 or htc etc.
While there are vast differences in how it works under the hood, for the most part you can expect about the same functionality, and it comes down to the provider and a particular feature you prefer in one over the other. In this case instead of your carrier you need to worry about you host, whether they offer the php version required aand the database you need etc. But for most part, you should be fine.
Modx Evo requirements : http://modxcms.com/learn/general-requirements.html
Modx Revo requires: http://rtfm.modx.com/display/revolution20/Server+Requirements
TextPattern requirements: http://textpattern.com/about/119/system-requirements
I find this an important thing to start with, while my server can handle either, you never know what server your clients are running(there still are some old configurations out there)
I haven't used Revo much yet, but it looks like there are quite a few really nice enhancements. One of them is installing packages. Previously you have to create TVs snippets chunks, so installing a package wasn't always so straight forward.
Modx Evo however has the import html feature, where you can load put your html site in a folder set the tag that holds the content, and modx will automatically create and fill the resources(pages), pretty nifty, but I've only used it to see what it does :)
Modx lets you get away with not knowing any php, but as your requirements change, you might find yourself needing an extra feature of script that is easy to add. I've found that using modx for the past 2 years or so has vastly improved my php abilities because of these additional functions required.
While I haven't worked with textpattern much I do remember installing it and playing around, but it just wasn't love at first sight, like with modx.
I also think modx is pretty easy for clients to navigate with some minimal coaching, but that is more of a comparison with joomla and drupal etc.
Bottom line, I think few people have spent enough time with both to REALLY understand both in terms of differences/advantages and mostly what you'll get is "the one I use is better; evidence being me using it" (myself included) or worse yet "I see you're mentioning CMSes, here's my favorite one"
To wrap up, one more important aspect (and this one is really important if you don't know your way around backends and php much) the community. If you run into problems, how likely is the modx vs textpattern forum.community willing to help. A good indication is community size. While I can't see the numbers for textpattern, currently modx forums show "255 Guests, 46 Users (3 Hidden)"
good luck
If you're comfortable with HTML then Textpattern's method of adding markup like tags into templates for content will probably be relatively straightforward for you to pick-up. The biggest issue most people seem to have in understanding Textpattern is its semantic model, there's a great page on the semantic model on Textpattern's Textbook site that should help.
I'm a big fan of Textpattern for building simple but powerful small to medium sites that do not require complicated user groups. It's quick to build well designed sites and the admin interface is really simple.
The Textpattern community is extremely friendly and helpful if you ever need help. Best place to ask things is on the Textpattern Forum.
You may want to consider sNews CMS in addition to MODx/Textpattern. It is quite minimalistic
PHP code is single file (excluding language translations).
You need to import one SQL script on phpMyAdmin and you are set.
After that its only styling and content.
I'm going to be moving my website to a CMS in the coming months I'd I need some help on choosing an appropriate CMS. Many of the websites I've seen tend to say "use Drupal, hands down". However, my website truly doesn't have a need for commenting or community features. Its pages will need to be modified occasionally, but not extensively. My website will also consist of many programs, each with their own sub-pages and menus.
There are probably 25 people that will need access to the content on my website and will need the ability to update it.
I do like the idea of being able to tag and categorize the content, and the modular aspect of Drupal but is it really right for my website? If not, which CMS may fit my needs better?
It sounds like Drupal would be an excellent solution to your company's needs. I used to recommend WordPress for smaller, single-blog type sites, but now, even for those, I recommend Drupal because you can start small and scale up as your needs grow. It has a very dedicated community and there is a module for just about any need you may have.
I would agree with Drupal. The thing about Drupal is that you start out very small and add on as you need things. There is a ton of documentation, it is well coded, always being expanded on, good forum support, and free. It's the easiest to install, most problem free, and most maintainable CMS system I've seen so far.
You can turn Drupal commenting off with the press of a button, and if/when you decide to add onto your website, perhaps you want an ad rotator, more extensive user permissions, etc, etc, it is all already developed for you and ready to go.
I am not sure if Wordpress supports multiple users on a site.
The smallest you can go for a CMS is something like 10kCMS or the more popular TinyMCE
If it is something small I will go with WordPress as it is easily themed and extensible. There are a lot of community plugins and support. Their documentation is also fairly simple as they don't have a thousand of functions and stuff you need to remember and understand. With some creativity the basic functionality of WordPress is sufficient to solve almost all problems that might arise in small to mid-size website.
I also like Drupal, but you may consider Umbraco as well. http://umbraco.org/ I'd use Umbraco over Drupal if your team is stronger in .Net than PHP. (Really, I think that's a larger concern - what are your organization's strengths? Play to suit them. You are making a decision that will pave the way for many developers besides yourself, and business decisions of your company.) Both are extendable and open source so you can write your own modules/components to customize. It may be cleaner to import into Drupal tables than Umbraco, since it goes down to xslt files. (EDIT: This looks to be no longer the case in the new version - http://umbracohosting.com/umbraco-4---get-excited/one-cms-any-database) From a front end dev perspective, both offer great control of the final output.
From working on legacy stuff a lot, you may end up hiring interns to do the gruntwork. There's bound to be tons of inline tables and all sorts of un-reusable code in there, it may be easier to scrape the content manually and start w/clean markup for the content portions.
I know that most people will consider this post as irrelevant, and yes, I've read tens of posts saying that Wordpress is "just a blogging platform". However, facts speak for themselves - people do use Wordpress a lot. Moreover, large projects are being developed using Wordpress as the underlying platform. Who doesn't believe it could check the showcase. Even my team has developed a couple of magazine websites full of rich media and different content types.
The point is: what can we do to make the development, and management process even easier? I hope that this post will draw the attention of Pro wordpress users and a lot of plugins, extensions, and techniques will be posted here. Please, do not hesitate to share your experience, if you have done a project with WP that is way out of its "blogging only" capabilities.
Thanks.
You're right, Wordpress can be extended to do anything. After all it's just a database with functions that put stuff in and take stuff out. Speaking from experience, I found that the API is pretty robust and can accomplish anything you want to, however, it's probably better to spec something out and build it yourself using a more agile framework like RoR.
Sometimes less is more.
It is amazing how much one could achieve using simple concepts such as posts, pages, categories, tags, and custom fields. The thing that I do not like in many content management frameworks and more advanced CMSes is that they often hinder development by putting too much abstraction on top of simple concepts like these. With Wordpress I could prototype a site in less than a day, again due to simple templating options which, of course can be extended on demand.
No one says that code should be written here and there with no structure at all. The thing is that WP API allows enough options to add abstractions when and where needed.
I remain a clear proponent of the use of WP for bigger projects than originally intended. All that is necessary is a little twist of mentality.
Of course, WP is not without its drawbacks. Its strongest side, the plugin community could turn out to be its weakest one, unless measures are taken to educate newbie plugin developers about some good practices. I've worked with some great plugins that fail in users's eyes because of weak API and integration hardships. Nobody would care about functionality if they cannot integrate the plugin at all, right ?
Anyone sharing any of this?
Two pretty good plpugins for extending wordpress beyond blogging are flutter and pods that allow you to do more with custom fields, in pods case much more.
I've started figuring out drupal, and so far most of the results are just ugly.
May be I need to learn it in something similar to a real-life project.
I thought — to reproduce this site's functionality might be a good learning project. But I need help. :)
Without assuming this site is based on drupal (it most likely is not — too quick, I think) is there a way to build something similar in functionality (yes, slower, OK if not as fancy as this one, but close) with existing drupal modules and schemes (or with minimal tweaking)?
Or drupal is not good enough for that?
Or — is it too complicated project for a student?
Which existing modules and schemes might help to build something similar?
(No competition is intended with stackoverflow.)
Firstly, Drupal is by no means a slow system, actually it works quite well.
Secondly, this has been already asked and answered here.
By the way Drupal has a medium learning curve but, once you learn how to use you'll find it simple and you'll find it will satisfy almost everything you want to do with it. Its plugin system is just great and it's very SEO friendly (I don't get paid from Drupal I swear, I just happen to like it a lot)
My website is made in drupal if you wanna take a look (is in spanish though).
-Is there a way to build something similar [to stackoverflow] in functionality with existing drupal modules and schemes (or with minimal tweaking)?
It's a good idea to try and learn a new technology by trying to make a real-world project. But if you're intention is to actually learn drupal, then trying to solve the problem with exiting modules and "a minimal amount of tweaking", you might not learn very much!
-Or drupal is not good enough for that?
Drupal is certainly capable of the type of functionality implemented here, and much more.
-Or — is it too complicated project for a student?
It depends on the student. Different people have different abilities. Your mileage may vary.
Some suggestions that might possibly help:
There's a Drupal distribution for it ... (not just a 'module'), i.e ArrayShift. Quote from its project page:
A question/answer site built to emulate the core functionality of sites on the StackExchange platform, such as:
StackOverflow.
Drupal Answers.
There is a Drupal theme for it, i.e the ArrayShift Theme. Here is a screenshot (from its project pages):
It has been in a kind of unsupported status until recently, though the updated project page contains a roadmap to get it going again for D7 (and D8 later on).
Disclosure: I'm the (new) maintainer of ArrayShift (and its related modules and theme),
I hope this does not violate the site's policy on self-promotion.