The more and more we venture into the wonderful world of CSS3, the more and more we all get annoyed by the fact that these features require a MASSIVE amount of browser prefixes to allow compatibility with some older browsers. This problem becomes quite apparent even for small sites, where we need 4 or 5 CSS properties for the exact same effect. A common example would be the background property for gradients.
I know that there are scripts that can help with this issue, but before resorting to those, is there a pure CSS fix that would allow you to work around the prefix issue, or at the very least, some sort of method to keep the extra amount of typing to a minimum? That is, combining things, shorthand, whatever. CSS files can easily double with CSS3-rich content.
I totally agree to the excessive code need to accomplish the same effects in CSS3 but that issue is on the browsers side as other comments stated.
One design practice/tool/technique i think best to follow is using LESS when writing css.
I see the The possibility of over coming this issue (for now) with it. Checkout it out here. http://alittlecode.com/handling-multiple-css3-transitions-with-a-less-mixin/.
If you are not sure what is LESS then check this out - http://www.lesscss.org/.
Yes it is pure CSS from my perspective, but no as stated before, it won't reduce the size of files.
hi guys im having trouble with padding with a input box for my contact page
im working with tables and i cant seem to get the correct padding or margin for my input boxes
here is the site: 217.120.183.184/cdweb/Contact/
please take a look about what i can try to fix this
Greetings,
Darren
I would start again from scratch, you have nested tables and all sorts, which is (technically) bad practice, I would look at using DIV's and CSS to absolutely align your elements.
Correct your table layout, you can't add as many td and colspan on it.
Purely using tables and inline styles (where you have widths and heights etc) is a very outdated practice, and debugging this kind of legacy design isn't so much a case of giving you a couple of rules, but more like saying 'you need to learn a bit more'.
Tables have their place - there's still a number of tricks that are close to impossible without them - but you really need to pick up some better technique.
Probably a good approach is pay someone to setup your page for you in clean css and html, and then see how they did it. There's thousands of services who will do this for you, and your design is not complex, so should be pretty cheap.
The thing is - this appears to be a site which is selling design services. If you're having a lot of trouble getting a simple design like this laid out, then at some point in the future you'll have a much much harder time, unless you bite the bullet, and start to pick up on proper, modern technique.
It's much simpler than it seems - keep things super simple, and don't forget to use a good CSS reset. The reset will remove all the table margins and paddings which are part of the browser's user agent styles, and let you define exactly how it should look.
Eric Meyer's CSS Reset - not namespaced, resets generally across items.
YUI3 Reset - namespaced, so you can selectively apply a reset to chunks of the page as required.
I found this very interesting:
http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/ultimate-3-column-holy-grail-pixels.htm
He avoid using horizontal margin and paddings to avoid problems with IE. I think he "fakes" padding using relative positioning.
Have you ever done something like this?
I'm a missing a common trend against IE hacks?
Does this practice have any drawbacks?
That example is outdated.
Problems with margins and paddings like that were a problem with the broken box model of IE5. In later versions of IE you will only get that broken box model if IE is in quirks mode. That's something you should be avoiding at all cost. Use the right doctype!
The example you linked actually relies on that broken box model. He has an updated version that doesn't:
http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/holy-grail-no-quirks-mode.htm
But what kind of IE problems are you actually trying to address? Do you specifically want a 3-column layout like in the page you linked to? Do you want general solutions for IE layout problems? Or do you want to be able to forget about IE altogether?
The most important thing to know about when dealing with layout and IE6/7 is its hasLayout property. Read On having layout for all the details on that.
If you are specifically looking for tools that can help you build complex layouts compatible with all browsers, you could have a look at grid frameworks like YUI Grids or Blueprint. But I can't say I'm a fan of those, since they tend to result in unsemantic div soup.
If you don't mind a little (experimental) JavaScript to fix up your entire website automagically, you could give IE7.js a try. I've used this, though it definitely has its quirks and limitations, so use at your own risk.
To come back to your original question, though, relative positioning is no ultimate solution for anything, it's just one of the tools in the box. Understand it and use it when it's appropriate. See, for example, Sitepoint's CSS layout and formatting reference. And as dry as it may be, I find the CSS specification to be invaluable, especially the chapters on the visual formatting model details.
I've discover so far that:
stating the width in some elements fix issues in IE.
and of course using a CSS reset
Do you know any others?
Learn about hasLayout
Inline block behavior can be achieved on IE7 by turning on hasLayout, then setting display to inline. This has turned out to be quite useful to me.
Make sure your doctype is present and correct. This alone can save hours of pain.
Use conditional comments anytime you need to hack something especially for IE. PLEASE don't fall into the amateur's habit of adding star/underscore junk in your main stylesheet.
I'd say that manually setting width would more often than not break things in IE, as a lot of IE versions implement a flawed box model.
I'd also say that a lot of all browser incompatibilities originate from a sub par understanding of the box model and float/clear, block/inline.
Having said that, I of course do not deny that it is IE, rather than the developer, that is the real problem, but I usually seek to avoid browser incompatibilities by using HTML structures that not even IE could miss-interpret, rather than through CSS hacks, and I've found that that is often quite doable.
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I am a programmer doing web development for over two years now. Even though I’ve been doing front end engineering for the past two years I don’t think I have done it the right way
For instance:
I still do layout with tables and not with just CSS. I haven’t still found out a way to correctly present data aligned and tabular.
I don’t know the difference between display: none and visibility: hidden (well, I know it now. but there are many cases like- padding, margins, overflows etc)
I haven’t really followed the inheritance way to writing CSS. Almost every style starts with a # and not a class.
Whenever a page loads slowly the html elements are out of place and fall into order only when it’s completely loaded.
I don’t know what this picture in firebug is conveying (by the way, firebug is my savior. Life would have been impossible without Firebug)
Whenever layout’s in a mess I am tempted to use position:absolute. Invariably it ends up in a bigger mess.
I know I am doing a lot of things wrong(and I need to get it right) here but I manage to get things into place and somehow show it up, only to see it messed up in a different browser.
I don’t want do a primer on CSS or CSS for dummies. I know more than that. I want to learn CSS the right way. Focusing on problems like the examples I showed above and rectifying them.
Can you point me to resources or add common suggestions and tips used by CSS developers to get it right.
Check out Designing With Web Standards by Jeffrey Zeldman.
Here are some general rules to live by:
Tables are good for tabular data. If the data you're presenting belongs in a table, don't go out of your way trying to make a grid out of <div>s. Doesn't make sense.
As far as layout is concerned, use <div> tags, stay away from tables. Get to know the float property well. With CSS3, there are going to be new, improve standards to the display property. Learn them.
display: none completely removes the element from the viewport. Conversely, visibility: hidden retains the whitespace that the element would have otherwise taken up. In both cases, the element remains in the DOM.
General rule of classes and IDs. Page elements and IDs should have a one-to-one relationship per page. For example, #Column1, #Column2, #Footer, #Header. Page elements and classes, on the other hand, should be a many-to-one relationship, like: .container or .navLink. Use classes when you know you're going to be using a particular element quite a bit.
Think in terms of efficiency. The less style rules you have, the more quickly your page will load and the easier style issues will be to debug.
I have about a million other things to say but that should get you started.
For layout-driven CSS, be sure to check out Everything You Know About CSS Is Wrong. It's a bit cutting edge, since IE 7 doesn't support display: table (pity, I know), but it does cover traditional layout CSS techniques like floating and absolute positioning, and provides a good transition from table-based layouts to CSS ones. I highly recommend it.
I don't know if you're building off of any dynamic language or if you're just coding raw HTML, but you should also look at using SASS in your projects, as I think it helps force you to pay more attention to inheritance. Otherwise, reviewing more "rudimentary" tutorials (like CSS for Dummies) might actually be helpful, as they go over a lot of CSS's fundamental principals in detail.
Lastly, CSS works best when you have semantically correct (x)html underneath the hood. In my opinion, it's easiest to see and learn "good" CSS when you have great, semantically correct html underneath. Here's a good overview of when to use what tags. Generally, I find it best to write my content with no regard what-so-ever to how it will look later, then use CSS later to make it gorgeous.
As always, you can pick up lots of neat tips and tricks at CSS Tricks, which have always helped me learn more about the correct usage of the language (like when I learned about overflow: auto for contained floating elements! Genius!).
Hope that helps!
Visit CSS Zen Garden to see what you can do only with CSS.
Visit W3 schools and follow the tutorial. It might seem simple for you, but you will learn the basic stuff.
Visit some sites, such as A list Apart to see how to do things and learn tricks.
See if a CSS framework suits your needs (such as 960 Grid).
I'm assuming you've installed Firebug?
Also, http://www.doctype.com might get more relevant results.
Practice, practice, practice. You know what you don't know, and that is the key to success in my mind. Every project you do, try to improve your skills, and eventually it will become second nature to do it the right way.
Eric Meyer's Cascading Style Sheets 2.0 Programmer's Reference is a great resource to understand exactly how selectors and rules work, and serves as a great reference as well.
Some thoughts on what you posted.
A Master Reset style sheet will
help with browser differences.
And Tabular data should use tables.
It's layouts that should avoid table
tags in favor of css.
Plenty of people here give good advices. I'll just add two more:
First, try to write valid (X)HTML. You can easily test your HTML code using W3C's HTML validator. Focus mainly on content, not on style.
Second, try to write valid CSS, preferably in a separate .css file. Avoid using the style attribute. (This part can be hard, if you want to support certain old browsers from Redmond). You can test your CSS using W3C's CSS validator.
Read CSS: The Definitive Guide by Eric Meyer. He explains why CSS was created, how it works (according to the standards), and will give you the background to understand the finer points. It also makes a good reference.
Experiment in Firebug
I don’t know what this picture in
firebug is conveying
Firebug itself can help you there. Do this:
Create a div with some text in it.
Use CSS to give it padding: 5px; margin: 5px; border: 1px solid black;
Examine it in Firebug, as you show in your question.
Click on any one of those numbers in the box model it's showing you, and start pressing the up and down arrows (or type a different number).
See how it changes in real time? This is one of the best things about Firebug: it lets you tweak without reloading, then modify your stylesheet when it looks right.
Keep doing this until you understand how padding, margins, and border work.
I think you should use, for your layout needs, one of the so called "css frameworks" (960.gs for example).
They are fast and reliable enough to build cross-browser layouts and also easy to read and understand as well, so you can learn all the good practices while you are coding.
CSS are easy and aren't a real programming language: don't be afraid of the word "framework" ;)
You could start by reading some good books on the matter. The ones of Eric Meyer are hands on and of very high quality. The other book that of which I learned a lot was the Zen of CSS design book.
And the rest is effort and practice. Be sure that you understand why something works the way it does, don't be satisfied with 'trial-and-error' css development.
http://www.amazon.com/Zen-CSS-Design-Visual-Enlightenment/dp/0321303474/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255629419&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/More-Eric-Meyer-Voices-Matter/dp/0735714258/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255629449&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Eric-Meyer-CSS-Mastering-Language/dp/073571245X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255629462&sr=8-1
Well, I will address some of these issues as best I can.
The difference between display:none and visibility:hidden is when the display is set the space for that item is not reserved. So imagine it as when the display is set the item is 'gone' off the page. Whereas if you are using the visibility option, the elements are on the page, in their place just invisible. Did I explain that clearly? Hopefully, that makes sense for you.
As far as the padding, border and margins, this is all referred to as the CSS Box Model. The information is contained as the element, its padding, border, then its margins. So padding is the distance between the element's content and its border whereas the margin is the distance between the border and the neighboring element. Again, I hope this helps clear this up for you a little bit.
Transitioning to CSS is sometimes tricky but well worth it.
Well the basics are quite simple, you should really get a hang of the quite easy if you've already don't some css coding.
The best practices, browser quirks, hacks and other sketchy stuff concerning crossbrowser layout is something else.
Here is my suggested reading list, all of them are on my bookshelf and certainly worth reading! If you ask me i'd say these are the book you should have read if you are a webdesigner.
Designing with webstandards
CSS Mastery
Bulletproof webdesign
for me, Pro CSS and HTML Design Patterns by Michael Bowers changed it all. no more endless trial-and-error, but problem - pattern - solution. indispensable.
Whenever a page loads slowly the html elements are out of place and fall into order only when it’s completely loaded.
Are you putting your stylesheets at the top, in the <head> section?
Are you declaring explicit sizes for images, or does the browser have to guess, then rearrange things when the image shows up?
Depending on your learning style, I might recommend going straight to the source: the definition of CSS. You can find each of the various specs here: http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/. While the specification doesn't really cover specific browser quirks (if it did, they wouldn't be quirks, would they?), it does a really good job (for me) of explaining how each piece works.
I will tell you my secret: follow this two classic tutorials
Listutorial
Floatutorial
And you'll know 80% of what you need to know about CSS.
30 Websites to follow if you’re into Web Development
http://htmldog.com/ is, in my opinion, one of the definitive resources to learning front-end web development the proper way.