Given the following scenario:
Computer A connects to a public server from behind a firewall.
Computer B connects to the same public server from behind a firewall.
Now, is there any way for Computer A to talk directly to Computer B using those outbound connections without sending all data through the server?
Can the server link those connections somehow?
Two peers, talking to each other, using outbound connections instead of dealing with inbound firewall issues.
Possible, yes. Easy, no.
At least one of the firewalls needs to be updated to forward a port on the external IP to a port on the machine behind it. The other machine can then connect to that port to open a bidirectional TCP/IP connection.
To accomplish this, you can make use of UPnP on the firewall to accomplish "hole punching" or "NAT traversal".
Once the firewall port is open, you forward that port number over the public server and pass it along with the public IP address already known to the server along to the other machine. It can now create the connection.
I don't think that it can be achieved mate. Unless you have access to the public server network and create a route to direct incoming A directly to the B and vice versa.
Related
I'm currently working on my group voice chatting program. This is my plan:
Build up a server on 192.168.1.125. Listen to port 3490 and forward it to the router.
Clients connect to the server and get the user IP list(Whenever a client connects to the server, its IP address is recorded by the
server)
Clients communicate with each other using UDP multicast(is this ever possible across the router?).
But now I'm running into troubles. If a client inside the LAN, e.g. 192.168.1.120, connects to the server, it's taken down as 192.168.1.120, which won't work for clients from WAN.
I'm wondering if there is any way to convert the LAN IP to public IP? (this might have something to do with the router, I think)
Thanks.
You will have to be prepared for the case where direct client-to-client communication fails. Relaying through the server or NAT traversal/penetration may be necessary. Significant expertise is required to do this correctly.
I know that ipchicken.com will tell you your router's ip address and the port it is using for your connection. But can this information be obtained "locally"? (Without relying on a website).
What I want it for is establishing a connection between two random hosts...without a "dedicated server" in the middle. My problem is to reach through the NAT. I think the best bet is a kind of TCP hole punching, where both hosts connect somewhere and then just tell each other (it can be by phone or chat or similar) the current ip address and the port number their routers are using. It should trick the routers into forwarding the packets to the hosts, albeit coming from a different source than they originally connected to.
Is it possible to find the port number your router is using to patch you through in a more local manner than ipchicken.com?
Are there any ideas on other possible approaches to this problem?
EDIT: Setting port forwarding on the router is not an option in this case, as many people (including me) do not have admin powers over their routers and I do not want to impose such a task on the "users" of my application
The router would use a different source port for every outgoing connection, so checking based on an outgoing connection will not work for your use case.
For an incoming connection, i.e., if you want to reach a specific machine behind a NAT device (like a home router), you'll have to explicitly open up some ports on the router and set up forwarding rules. The router would then listen for incoming connections on that port and forward it to a machine:port based on the configured rule.
How you do this would depend on the specific router make/model. Search the web or logon to the admin interface and look around, it should be easy to find. However make sure you understand the security implications of opening up a port on your router!
UPDATE based on edited question:
Without port-forwarding and if both devices are behind NAT, your only solution is to have an intermediary server! If only one of them is behind NAT, you can have that machine initiate the connection.
You could use a Stun server as the external globally reachable server.
I've been investigating networking for use in a two-player game I'm writing, and I'm still not clear on when a device must have a port forwarded in order to communicate with the outside world.
From what I've seen in other games, port forwarding is always required in order to host a server, but is not required on the client. In addition, there are other situations, such as skype (which, to my understanding is ultimately client to client), where neither end must forward a port.
So my question is, in over-the-Internet communication, when is and isn't port forwarding necessary, and what steps can i take as a developer to make it so my users don't have to worry about it? Thanks in advance!
Port forwarding is needed when a machine on the Internet needs to initiate a connection to a machine that's behind a firewall or NAT router. If the connection is initiated by the machine behind the firewall, the firewall/router automatically recognizes the reply traffic and sends it to the machine that opened the connection.
But if a packet arrives on the external interface, and it's not a part of such a connection, the router needs to know what to do with it. By default, it will reject it. But if forwarding is configured for the port, that tells it what internal machine to send it to.
Put another way: you need port forwarding if you want to run a server behind the NAT firewall/router, you don't need it if you're just running a client.
There is reason why Skype don't (not always) need manual setting of port forwarding:
When you install Skype, a port above 1024 is chosen at random as the
port for incoming connections. You can configure Skype to use a
different port for incoming connections if you wish, but if you do,
you must open the alternative port manually.
If the port chosen for incoming connections becomes unavailable, by
default ports 80 and 443 will be used as alternatives. If another
application (such as Apache HTTP server or IIS) uses these ports, you
can either configure the application to use other ports, or you can
configure Skype to not use these ports.
Port forwarding is must if you host a server.
You can use same technique as Skype...
I am not sure if there is any other option...
Port forwarding (occurs) when a NAT, firewall or some other device blocks communication on all or some ports.
To answer your question as an example, most commercial routers use NAT to allow multiple people to use the same IP(As view from the outside world) provided by ISPs. Most ISP's use NAT to allow multiple customers to use the same IP(As viewed from the outside world). To get this to work, the NAT changes the internal IP and the port number of a communication to THE(there is only one for the entire sub network) external IP and a new port number. By doing this, the router/isp/ect can tell which internal IP and port each external communication goes to.
Anytime one of the computers communicating over the internet are behind a NAT, port forwarding is required. I'm sure there are way more situations than this, and the solution to each can be quite complicated. But this covers the vast majority.
I have an application that relies on IP addresses for communication (Domain names simply does not work. :(... )
Its function is to connect to its peer on the other machine and send data over after establishing trust. During the "trust establishing" phase they both exchange their IPs for future communication. They both are behind the two different firewalls and are NATted. One is in our NATted office network and other is in the cloud NATted behind their firewall. The applications knows their respective private IPs and exchange that (the 10.x.xxx.xxx range), when they try to connect back to each other (using the private IPs with range 10.x.xxx.xxx) for transferring data they fail. The connection is TCP and the port range is pretty varied.
I am curious if there is anyway I can hard code (for this one time) a rule (at may be firewall level or some place outside my application) that says if there is a connection being initiated for IP address 10.x.xxx.xxx then redirect it to 205.x.xxx.xxx?
Private IP address ranges like 10.x.y.z are, by their very nature, private.
You can't do any meaningful resolution unless each node in between the endpoints has rules in place to translate these.
Translation is tricky, all the main tools you would use cater for static translation (port forwarding, e.g. where a particular port is forwarded to a particular IP). This is one avenue, but it is a hacky one (it requires you to open lots of ports, procedurally update your router and probably have some sort of broker server to maintain mappings).
Alternatively, you could run the isolated networks over a VPN, which would give your endpoints mutual private IPs which you can use to connect to eachother. It would simply be a case of binding to this new address and communicating across the VPN. This would also potentially encrypt your communication over the internet.
Other possibilities are to use NAT/TCP punchthrough techniques which can allow traversal, but these are really a patch to a broken network topology (Read up on IPv6 to see how this can be alleviated).
Alternatively, you could route all the connections over a proxy, but this will complicate matters compared to a VPN.
To answer the question about hardcoding a rule, port forwarding is the solution here. It will obviously depend on your router configuration for the peer accepting the connection, but this client should have the port target port forwarded to the machine. This will obviously not scale very well and is really shifting to a server/client architecture for one connection!
Depending on your hardware, you may be able to forward a range of ports (if a single port cannot be established) and limit the port forwarding to certain incoming connections (the external IPs).
Information on port forwarding can be found at http://portforward.com/
This sounds a lot like what you'd want out of a VPN. Is there anyway that you could set one up? Basically the Site-To-Site VPN between you and the cloud would say 'oh hey, here is an ip located on the remote network, go ahead and connect through the link'. Would this kind of solution work in your case?
Something along these lines: http://i.msdn.microsoft.com/dynimg/IC589512.jpg
I was wondering that how application like skype ( a popular chat client ) works in local network with one router, How it can listen on particular port?
for example:=
In one network A and B are two machines running skype , gateway of both is G1,
now how A and B will have same IP on internet that is of G1, but how can they ensure that they are listening on different ports? How can they ask to router G1 for unique port.
I want to make a simple text chat server on linux. How can I have connections between two different computers in two different networks?
Solution to your problem is to have a forwarding server somewhere in the net.
Different programs use different means to connect to each other. But every chat server, including Skype, has a server, which forwards data or information about subnet IP/port availability.
There are two types of clients: "listening" clients and "passive" ones. Listening clients have direct access to Internet via router port forwarding, and "passive" ones have to use additional tricks to get their hands on external data, line external servers or additional ports to listen.
The point is, not clients connect to each other, but they connect to a server, which then connects back to them to verify they are available, and, if at least one of them is not firewalled, direct another on to connect to the first one, excludint itself from further communication. And if both are firewalled, then is has to forward their messages through itself.
Host Discovery
Manual discovery, client A knowns who client B is
Discovery through broadcast UDP which is used by lot of games for LAN play. A client sends out a packet to the broadcast address for their subnet. The peers can choose to pick up this broadcast and respond. The downside is that this is limited to the current subnet. The more general INADDR_BROADCAST (255.255.255.255) works for all subnets on the local-link, but it cannot be routed, so won't work over internet (this is what DHCP auto-configuration uses).
Discovery through a central (Rendezvous) server. Each individual client knows the address of the server, and the latter informs them about each other. This technique is used by IRC, Voip, IMs and by most 'peer-to-peer' networks.
Communication
After the initial discovery is done you want to be able to talk to eachother. On the internet this can get tricky. Most people nowadays have their own router and sit behind a NAT, so direct connections are impossible.
Using a Rendezvous server, you can possibly talk to each other using the server itself. client A tells the server what to say, and it in turn tells client B, since both clients have an outbound connection to the server.
It is possible for the clients to talk to each other without the server proxying. This requires either DMZ, port forwarding or UPnP. DMZ will basically forward all incoming connections on all the ports to a given local IP. Port forwarding only forwards certain ports to local IPs. UPnP is a bit more advanced, the client requests that the router temporarily forwards a port to it, and you tell the other client via the rendezvous server where to connect.
Chatting app implementation
The easiest solution to your problem is most likely to use a central server, which is known by all the clients, that proxies host discovery and possibly the communication between the clients. If you want the clients to communicate directly, you can just proxy host discovery, and then let either DMz, manual port forwarding or UPnP do the rest.
Another solution would be to just have direct communication through NAT traversal techniques discussed above, and do manual host discovery.
Yet another solution would be to use a public webserver and 'abuse' its ability to insert content to chat with each other.
You need a central UDP Rendezvous Server.
After the initial connection from the client to the server the UDP clients can be redirected to talk to eachother directly even if firewalled.
The trick is to open an UDP connection from the inside.
Check out Real-Time Media Flow Protocol and how they use it.
Check out UDP Hole Punching
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Traditional NAT servers replace the source address and port with the address and a random port number of the external interface of the NAT server. This works well for simple protocols such as HTTP and SMTP, but it can create problems for more complex protocols that require multiple response ports on the external interface of the NAT server. NAT servers also aren’t aware of information stored in the data portion of the application layer header without the help of NAT editors and similar software fixes.
Windows XP’s answer to these problems is NAT Traversal, which can automatically allow the UPnP-enabled NAT client application to communicate with a UPnP NAT device. NAT Traversal provides methods to allow the UPnP client to learn the public IP address of the NAT server and to negotiate dynamically assigned port mappings for UPnP NAT client applications.
NAT Traversal features can be built into any hardware device or software application. Applications that commonly cause troubles for NAT devices but work well when UPnP-enabled include the following:
Multiplayer Internet games
Audio and video communications
Terminal Services clients and servers
Peer-to-peer file sharing applications
When these applications are UPnP-enabled, access through the Windows XP ICS allows them to work seamlessly.
Unless A and B are actually "listening" to the responses to outgoing requests, your router will need to be cofigured to forward the relevant port numbers to the relevant hosts. This isn't something that you can request in the code, it's something you need to configure on the router itself.