I'm currently working on my group voice chatting program. This is my plan:
Build up a server on 192.168.1.125. Listen to port 3490 and forward it to the router.
Clients connect to the server and get the user IP list(Whenever a client connects to the server, its IP address is recorded by the
server)
Clients communicate with each other using UDP multicast(is this ever possible across the router?).
But now I'm running into troubles. If a client inside the LAN, e.g. 192.168.1.120, connects to the server, it's taken down as 192.168.1.120, which won't work for clients from WAN.
I'm wondering if there is any way to convert the LAN IP to public IP? (this might have something to do with the router, I think)
Thanks.
You will have to be prepared for the case where direct client-to-client communication fails. Relaying through the server or NAT traversal/penetration may be necessary. Significant expertise is required to do this correctly.
Related
I'm trying to build a peer-to-peer game, where each player is both a server and a client with tcp sockets. The sockets can connect fine when I'm using local ip:s, but of course fails when I'm trying to use external ip:s.
But I'm thinking that the players should be able to connect to each other if they just knew the external address + port that the router assigns to them.
Setting up port forwarding is out if the question since I don't have access to the players routers.
I'm thinking of having a server in between, just to be able to read the external address and port of the players, and tell the other player about it so that it can connect.
But I haven't found any info anywhere if that's how port forwarding works. If computer A makes a request from a local address and a port to the server, and the router assigns this address + port to an external address + port, and the server tell computer B which address + port to use. Can computer B use that external address + port to connect to the computer A and start a tcp socket with it? Is there any way to know that this external address + port stays the same when another computer makes a request against them?
The problem is that most people don't expose their PC directly to the internet. They have a router that has an external address. When you send a packet to their IP address, it is going to their router. The router doesn't know where to forward it to and what port to use without port forwarding.
So, getting everyone to enable port forwarding is out of the question, as it should be. A simpler mechanism is to have a server on the internet that you control. It has a firewall with port forwarding setup. The clients are just clients, they connect to the server on a port and send and receive info about the current status of the game. That way, everyone has real-time updates on their local game engine. Plus, this way is much easier to program and implement.
No, TCP doesn't work like that.
The source port that has been used to talk to the rendezvous server will be transient and specific to that particular initial TCP socket connection and can only be used as a destination for return traffic on the same connection from the rendezvous server, and can't be used by a third party to make new inbound connections.
The typical (only?) practical solution when NATs are involved and port forwarding is not available is to have that central server relay all messages bidirectionally between the peers.
Hole punching is what I was looking for.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_punching_(networking)
Given the following scenario:
Computer A connects to a public server from behind a firewall.
Computer B connects to the same public server from behind a firewall.
Now, is there any way for Computer A to talk directly to Computer B using those outbound connections without sending all data through the server?
Can the server link those connections somehow?
Two peers, talking to each other, using outbound connections instead of dealing with inbound firewall issues.
Possible, yes. Easy, no.
At least one of the firewalls needs to be updated to forward a port on the external IP to a port on the machine behind it. The other machine can then connect to that port to open a bidirectional TCP/IP connection.
To accomplish this, you can make use of UPnP on the firewall to accomplish "hole punching" or "NAT traversal".
Once the firewall port is open, you forward that port number over the public server and pass it along with the public IP address already known to the server along to the other machine. It can now create the connection.
I don't think that it can be achieved mate. Unless you have access to the public server network and create a route to direct incoming A directly to the B and vice versa.
I've been investigating networking for use in a two-player game I'm writing, and I'm still not clear on when a device must have a port forwarded in order to communicate with the outside world.
From what I've seen in other games, port forwarding is always required in order to host a server, but is not required on the client. In addition, there are other situations, such as skype (which, to my understanding is ultimately client to client), where neither end must forward a port.
So my question is, in over-the-Internet communication, when is and isn't port forwarding necessary, and what steps can i take as a developer to make it so my users don't have to worry about it? Thanks in advance!
Port forwarding is needed when a machine on the Internet needs to initiate a connection to a machine that's behind a firewall or NAT router. If the connection is initiated by the machine behind the firewall, the firewall/router automatically recognizes the reply traffic and sends it to the machine that opened the connection.
But if a packet arrives on the external interface, and it's not a part of such a connection, the router needs to know what to do with it. By default, it will reject it. But if forwarding is configured for the port, that tells it what internal machine to send it to.
Put another way: you need port forwarding if you want to run a server behind the NAT firewall/router, you don't need it if you're just running a client.
There is reason why Skype don't (not always) need manual setting of port forwarding:
When you install Skype, a port above 1024 is chosen at random as the
port for incoming connections. You can configure Skype to use a
different port for incoming connections if you wish, but if you do,
you must open the alternative port manually.
If the port chosen for incoming connections becomes unavailable, by
default ports 80 and 443 will be used as alternatives. If another
application (such as Apache HTTP server or IIS) uses these ports, you
can either configure the application to use other ports, or you can
configure Skype to not use these ports.
Port forwarding is must if you host a server.
You can use same technique as Skype...
I am not sure if there is any other option...
Port forwarding (occurs) when a NAT, firewall or some other device blocks communication on all or some ports.
To answer your question as an example, most commercial routers use NAT to allow multiple people to use the same IP(As view from the outside world) provided by ISPs. Most ISP's use NAT to allow multiple customers to use the same IP(As viewed from the outside world). To get this to work, the NAT changes the internal IP and the port number of a communication to THE(there is only one for the entire sub network) external IP and a new port number. By doing this, the router/isp/ect can tell which internal IP and port each external communication goes to.
Anytime one of the computers communicating over the internet are behind a NAT, port forwarding is required. I'm sure there are way more situations than this, and the solution to each can be quite complicated. But this covers the vast majority.
Some background first. I have a .net client agent installed on each of the machines in the lan. They are interacting with my central server [website] also on the same lan.
It is important for my website to figure out which of the machines can talk to each other. For example, machines of one subnet cannot directly talk to machines of another subnet without configuring the routers and such. But machines in the same subnet should be able to talk to each other directly.
The problem I am facing is when the lan setup is like in Figure 1.
Because Comp1, Comp2 and Comp3 are behind a router, they have got the ipaddress 192.168.1.2 till 192.168.1.4. My client agent on these machines report the same ipaddress back to the server. However, machines Comp4, Comp5 also have the same ipaddresses.
Thus, as far as my server is concerned, there are 2 machines with the same ipaddress. Not just that, because the subnet mask is 255.255.255.0 for all machines, my server is fooled into thinking that Comp1 can directly talk to Comp5, which is not possible.
So, how do I solve this? What do I need to change in my client or in my server, so that I can support this scenario. These two are the only things in my control.
EDIT: Seems that the network diagram
is over simplified and there could be
multiple router/subnet levels. My
original answer will not handle this
scenario. Also, with the restriction
of modifying only the client app or server
app and not tampering with the
routers and firewalls makes
it more difficult.
EDIT2: Using 'arp -a' you can extract
the MAC address of the router. If the
client apps can manage to do this then
the puzzle is solved!
The client app knows the local machine address and passes it to the server app.
The server app knows the remote address when a connection comes in. This would be machine address or a router address.
From these two values you can work out what you ask.
For example:
Server app receives connection from 10.10.10.2 with client supplying 192.168.1.2
Server app receives connection from 10.10.10.3 with client supplying 192.168.1.3
The 'remote address' distinguishes the subnets.
So, all you need to figure out is how to extract the remote address of a client connection. If you are using any of the popular web technologies for your server app then this is very easy.
One approach is for the individual client machines to determine who they can see using a broadcast message. Have each client listen on some particular UDP port, and each client broadcast its presence to whatever the local broadcast domain is. When clients can see each other in this way, they can probably also make TCP connections to each other.
If the server needs to know which clients can talk to each other, just have the clients tell the server.
If the network diagram is complicated enough I think if would be very difficuilt to find what you need.
You should also take into account that Comp1 can establish direct connection to Comp6.
The solution I can suggest is probing. Client receives list of all other clients from server and tries to establish connection to each of them. I think that would be the only way to know which clients are REALLY accessible assuming any number of routers/firewalls/NATs in the network. Doesn'r scale much for a big number of computers of course.
I was wondering that how application like skype ( a popular chat client ) works in local network with one router, How it can listen on particular port?
for example:=
In one network A and B are two machines running skype , gateway of both is G1,
now how A and B will have same IP on internet that is of G1, but how can they ensure that they are listening on different ports? How can they ask to router G1 for unique port.
I want to make a simple text chat server on linux. How can I have connections between two different computers in two different networks?
Solution to your problem is to have a forwarding server somewhere in the net.
Different programs use different means to connect to each other. But every chat server, including Skype, has a server, which forwards data or information about subnet IP/port availability.
There are two types of clients: "listening" clients and "passive" ones. Listening clients have direct access to Internet via router port forwarding, and "passive" ones have to use additional tricks to get their hands on external data, line external servers or additional ports to listen.
The point is, not clients connect to each other, but they connect to a server, which then connects back to them to verify they are available, and, if at least one of them is not firewalled, direct another on to connect to the first one, excludint itself from further communication. And if both are firewalled, then is has to forward their messages through itself.
Host Discovery
Manual discovery, client A knowns who client B is
Discovery through broadcast UDP which is used by lot of games for LAN play. A client sends out a packet to the broadcast address for their subnet. The peers can choose to pick up this broadcast and respond. The downside is that this is limited to the current subnet. The more general INADDR_BROADCAST (255.255.255.255) works for all subnets on the local-link, but it cannot be routed, so won't work over internet (this is what DHCP auto-configuration uses).
Discovery through a central (Rendezvous) server. Each individual client knows the address of the server, and the latter informs them about each other. This technique is used by IRC, Voip, IMs and by most 'peer-to-peer' networks.
Communication
After the initial discovery is done you want to be able to talk to eachother. On the internet this can get tricky. Most people nowadays have their own router and sit behind a NAT, so direct connections are impossible.
Using a Rendezvous server, you can possibly talk to each other using the server itself. client A tells the server what to say, and it in turn tells client B, since both clients have an outbound connection to the server.
It is possible for the clients to talk to each other without the server proxying. This requires either DMZ, port forwarding or UPnP. DMZ will basically forward all incoming connections on all the ports to a given local IP. Port forwarding only forwards certain ports to local IPs. UPnP is a bit more advanced, the client requests that the router temporarily forwards a port to it, and you tell the other client via the rendezvous server where to connect.
Chatting app implementation
The easiest solution to your problem is most likely to use a central server, which is known by all the clients, that proxies host discovery and possibly the communication between the clients. If you want the clients to communicate directly, you can just proxy host discovery, and then let either DMz, manual port forwarding or UPnP do the rest.
Another solution would be to just have direct communication through NAT traversal techniques discussed above, and do manual host discovery.
Yet another solution would be to use a public webserver and 'abuse' its ability to insert content to chat with each other.
You need a central UDP Rendezvous Server.
After the initial connection from the client to the server the UDP clients can be redirected to talk to eachother directly even if firewalled.
The trick is to open an UDP connection from the inside.
Check out Real-Time Media Flow Protocol and how they use it.
Check out UDP Hole Punching
alt text http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/stratus/images/p2pvideo_250x215.jpg
Traditional NAT servers replace the source address and port with the address and a random port number of the external interface of the NAT server. This works well for simple protocols such as HTTP and SMTP, but it can create problems for more complex protocols that require multiple response ports on the external interface of the NAT server. NAT servers also aren’t aware of information stored in the data portion of the application layer header without the help of NAT editors and similar software fixes.
Windows XP’s answer to these problems is NAT Traversal, which can automatically allow the UPnP-enabled NAT client application to communicate with a UPnP NAT device. NAT Traversal provides methods to allow the UPnP client to learn the public IP address of the NAT server and to negotiate dynamically assigned port mappings for UPnP NAT client applications.
NAT Traversal features can be built into any hardware device or software application. Applications that commonly cause troubles for NAT devices but work well when UPnP-enabled include the following:
Multiplayer Internet games
Audio and video communications
Terminal Services clients and servers
Peer-to-peer file sharing applications
When these applications are UPnP-enabled, access through the Windows XP ICS allows them to work seamlessly.
Unless A and B are actually "listening" to the responses to outgoing requests, your router will need to be cofigured to forward the relevant port numbers to the relevant hosts. This isn't something that you can request in the code, it's something you need to configure on the router itself.