We are planning to extend an existing ASP.NET application (a real huge one) to have a slicker UI. One of the requiremnents is to have a way to execute server side code without a postback (As an example, say a user clicks on a link or hovers on a link, a popup comes up which executes server side code or makes calls to the database)
We plan to add more functionality that closely aligns with the behavior of a yahoo or a google customized page.
Is UpdatePanels a way to go or should a lot of it be implemented using JavaScript? One of the main requirements is to keep the pages as light as possible and to have good performance. We don't plan on using any 3rd party components.
What technologies are suggested that will help us add UI heavy features in the future?
Edit: Thanks everyone. It appears that the approach to take is to use a JS library such as JQuery and AJAX (from initial research the PageMethod/WebMethod way of doing it)?
Any more suggestions?
I think that UpdatePanels are actually pretty clunky. (Actually, I think ASP.NET is pretty clunky now that I've moved to ASP.NET MVC). If the page is going to be highly interactive, I'd suggest using some sort of javascript framework, like jQuery, Dojo, MooTools, etc. that will allow you to do AJAX easily as well as manage the user experience client-side. MS is distributing jQuery with Visual Studio and has promised to support it, so you might want to consider that when making your decision.
Stephen Walter did a great talk about the next version of ASP.NET Ajax 4.0. It's not an immediate solution but it's interesting to see where Microsoft is going with their Ajax framework.
There's a lot more to ASP.NET AJAX than the UpdatePanel, and a fair amount of it can be done without heavy JavaScript work. UpdatePanel is quite inefficient in terms of the amount of data send over the wire. As with everything, only optimise when you need - but bear in mind that the UpdatePanel is one of the first places to look for your slowdowns.
Just to give you a different answer than everybody else: why not try silverlight?
Related
My team is currently working on a substantial update to an existing ASP.NET 3.5 application which uses the Ajax Control Toolkit on virtually every page. We've found that in many cases that its use is unwarranted (clearly a previous developer decided to "Ajaxafy" everything), and a richer - and simpler - experience can be found using jQuery.
We've also found that the AjaxControlToolkit can be a pain to work with frankly in terms of maintainability and performance when you have half a dozen developers working it. We're debating scrapping its use completely, and going with jQuery for the UI experience. We're fortunate to have enough time to do this safely, and every feature we use can be replicated without any problems (AutoComplete, Calendar Control, etc).
It seems Microsoft are siding with jQuery with its addition to Visual Studio lately, and the current Ajax Control Toolkit isn't in ASP MVC (client side files only). Therefore I'm personally siding with jQuery for the moment, as it seems to have a future, while the Control Toolkit's future is a little more cloudy.
However, from a maintainability perspective, how is jQuery to work with?
It's essentially just Javascript, so no plugins required. Are updates stable, and do they often break existing functionality?
We use jquery extensively with asp.net 3.5 and have upgrade jquery and jquery ui about 3 times without a hitch. Both times we have had noticeable speed increases. Maintenance has never been an issue in about 2 years of use with 5 developers.
We find jQuery very readable and enjoyable to code with.
Don't give up on AJAX just yet. Both AJAX and jQuery are useful as long as you're using them to do what they're suited to. I really don't see too much of a difference in maintainability, it's all still code. You need to test new releases/updates before putting them into production; vet any 3rd party code you're integrating into your code base, and make sure that you're not using AJAX/jQuery to pound a square peg into a round hole.
As to the pros/cons of AJAX vs jQuery:
AJAX beats out jQuery when it comes to:
Server-Side integration
CLR Features and Feel
JSON and WCF
jQuery beats out AJAX when it comes to:
Animations
Being Lightweight
DOM Selection
Attribute / CSS Manipulation
The ACT isn't in MVC because the control structure is deeply embedded in the web forms product; most vendors (like Telerik, Component Art etc) are actually writing a separate code-base for MVC because of the complexity of making it work with two frameworks, although Telerik did a good job of it (you can use the web form controls in MVC, though the MVC-specific controls are much nicer to use).
I like JQuery, and for a project, I believe we are going to go Telerik/JQuery and plugins, so that is always a good bet.
Also, the ACT does have a lot of scripts and may not be applicable in all scenarios, but the real issue is adding too much AJAX when it isn't warranted, something that can be a problem with any other framework too.
HTH.
jQuery is tested pretty extensively. I don't remember a break caused by an update, you mileage may vary. They would likely know about any compat problems and warn about them in the release notes or elsewhere.
I am a quite new to web development and I am trying to do some small form updates without causing a postback. For example making a control visible when a drop down list is changed.
I have so far come across some features that achieve this like the RequiredFieldValidator inside an update panels. However, these are specific to a single task.
What are my options to achieve these client side updates in Visual Studio? At the moment I don't know any JavaScript, so I would prefer another solution if it exists.
If you don't know JQuery you should or at least any other Javascript library this will give you an edge and also pump up your resume. The learning curve of these JS frameworks is so short that you'll be creating awesome UI's in no time. I suggest that you take at least two hours to get to know JQuery you won't regret it.
Here's a few great article on using ASP.NET with JQuery:
http://dotnetslackers.com/articles/ajax/using-jquery-with-asp-net.aspx
http://www.dotnetspark.com/kb/1532-gridview-and-jquery-asp-net-tutorial.aspx
http://www.beansoftware.com/ASP.NET-Tutorials/Using-jQuery-ASP.NET.aspx
Here are a few of the best tutorials on JQuery:
http://www.ajaxline.com/best-jquery-tutorials-march-2010
For display functionality like you have described, javascript really is the best solution. Take a look at jQuery, it makes writing javascript a lot easier, and you should be up and running with it in no time for tasks like your basic show/hide functionality.
Unfortunately, AJAX stands for 'Asynchronous Javascript and XML' so getting this behaviour without using Javascript is going to land you in a bit of a pickle.
Update Panels do work and are very easy, but they're also very slow in comparison as even if you only see the contents of your panel update, the entire ASP page has to be executed.
I'd urge you to take a deep breath and head over to JQuery.Com and practise the tutorials there. Javascript is easier then you think and JQuery takes a lot of the hardships of cross-browser compatibility out of the picture, leaving you to focus on the real tasks.
Good Luck!
Not sure if this belongs in community wiki...
Can somebody give some general guidelines on how to successfully build an ASP.NET site that isn't dependent on JavaScript? My understanding is that I should build a functional site initially without JavaScript, and use it to enhance the user experience. That is easier said than done... how can I make sure my site works without JavaScript short of disabling JavaScript and trying it? Or is this something that comes with experience?
Try ASP.NET MVC! sure most of the examples use JavaScript for the AJAX functionality, but it's easy to build a fully functioning site that doesn't use JavaScript.
Since ASP.NET MVC doesn't use server controls with all their embedded JavaScript, it's a great way to build a site with very minimal and lightweight HTML, while still writting your data access and business logic in C#, VB.NET, or any other .NET language.
I've built working ASP.Net sites with little or no JavaScript, so it's definitely possible (just a royal pain.) The trick, and this sounds silly, is to use as few <ASP:> type tags as possible. Those all spawn various levels of JavaScript. Regular old-school HTML elements work just fine with no scripting.
So, on the extreme end, you write, say, your form using all plain-vanilla HTML elements, and then you have that form submit point at another page that accepts the form submit and hands it off to your server-side scripting.
To put it another way, pretend that all you get with ASP.NET is a snazzy server-side programming language and you're writing HTML in 1998.
Now, having done this, I can tell you that what this ends up as is a classic ASP webpage with cleaner programming syntax. ;) Most of the features that make ASP.NET "better" than classic ASP hang on JavaScript, so writing a JavaScript-free ASP.NET system is an exercise in shooting oneself in the foot repeatedly.
However, the one thing you should absolutely do is make sure the first page or two do work without JavaScript. Unlike 10 years ago you can safely assume that any browser hitting your page has JavaScript, and unlike about 8 years ago, your visitors probably don't have JavaScript turned off for speed reasons, but they very well might have something like the NoScript plugin for Firefox dialed all the way to 11. So, your first couple of pages need to work well enough to a) tell the new visitor that they need JavaScript, and b) still look and work good enough to make it look like adding your site to the white list is worth it. (In my experience, most people get the first one done, but in such as way as to totally drop the ball on the second. To put it another way - if your super fancy web 2.0 mega site starts looking like craigslist if noScript is fired up, I'm probably not going to bother letting you run scripts on my machine.)
If you want to use many of the ASP.NET controls (i.e. the DataGridView), ASP.NET pages are generated with lots of JavaScript in order to handle the events on the controls (i.e. selecting a row in the DataGridView). I think you're going to lose so much of ASP.NET that trying to have ASP.NET work without JavaScript enabled is impractical.
Disabling Javascript is the best way to test how a web site performs with out it. Good news, IE8's developer tools provide a quick and easy way to do just that. Now, having said that, often times the only thing that you can do is put up a message with a noscript tag to the effect that your site requires javascript for best function.
Many ASP.NET functionalities & controls won't work when JavaScript has been disabled. Think of LinkButton's onclick event which contains a call to a JavaScript function.
LinkButton is just an example. But there are many other things too.
If your concern is with JavaScript being disabled in user's browser then you can check for that and handle your site accordingly.
If you do decide to build the site without JavaScript then you will end up building a somewhat static web site. If your need is just to build a static website then you can go on with this approach.
Write everything with basic html forms and css, and then you will know that it works without javascript.
Once you are happy with it, then look at unobtrusive javascript, so you can modify the way the application works when javascript is enabled.
Last time I looked at some stats about this around 1% disable JavaScript, so why spend hours and hours on this when what you should do is show a message telling the user that your site requires javascript.
Use your time to be productive instead of trying to write around perceived limitations.
I've seen a few blog posts and tutorials overviewing mixing in jQuery and the UI elements for Views in a .NET MVC web app. But usually targeted at developers with a comprehensive grasp of the full dev cycle and variations of back/middle tier technologies.
As the front end developer I'm pitching a jQuery-only UI to the back-end dev - he cautions against a non-webforms interface for sake of the code maturity pov.
I'm trying to hit back with "well...it's your pattern ...isn't it elemental to MVC? No logic in the view? I'm reading that to be 'server-side stuff'. You just serialize the properties i'm asking for, or better...let me easily discover what you _can send me...i'll be able to implement the UI via jQuery UI."
So how valid is my position?
Can jQuery's grid be expected to handle at least the bottom 85% of .net's native control (low-to-moderate capacities # of rows)?
How about in-line editing? ...from the grid?
Would working exclusively in Web Services simplify his life at all? and if so, wouldn't that be logical way to build a .net-to-jQuery relationship? - ajax liaisoning twixt server (.net WS methods) and client?
mny thx
--steve...
Don't fight the platform. That way lies pain and suffering.
The MVC view objects are vastly different than asp.net webforms with server controls--you get straight up html. You get jquery and ajax basically for free, with (almost) magic server side ajax call processing.
They are designed to do what you ask. Writing your own jquery ui is reinventing the wheel.
Not only would it be a ton of extra work for no gain. You would be the only developer around trying to do that, and when you needed help, few could offer advice.
If this is an admin interface, and the client has agreed that users must have javascript enabled then I think using javascript to build widgets on the page is a better option than using the asp.net server controls. If however this is a public facing website I would argue that a pure html and css approach is much better, and then use javascript to progressively enhance the page!
Now I dont ever advocate using asp.net server controls, because they spit out poor markup and they are overly complicated to use. Instead I have been using jQuery to do the grunt work and dom querying and traversing. I also dont advocate using jQuery UI because they are missing some very essential widgets, for example no datatable, no treeview etc. I know that there are lots of plugins for jQuery but they are not componentised and therefore each plugin needs to reinvent the wheel to achieve everything it needs. Once you have included all your plugin libraries and css you often end up with a very large page footprint. Also each plugin often has a different home page and documentation that may or may not be up to scratch.
I think that the best UI library is YUI, and you can easily combine it with jQuery. Because each widget is made up from core components the overall weight of download is smaller. Also you have all the documentation in one place with 100's of working examples. Also it means working with the same set of javascript patterns across the board, so with each widget you learn more and more about the library. Hopefully jQuery UI will catch up, but personally I am looking forward to YUI 3 which for me might mean dropping jQuery altogether...
jQuery is a very mature library. It is used by thousands of people across the internet, and I dont think I have ever encountered a bug. YUI is dogfooded by YAHOO so it too is battle hardened.
One thing I did not mention to you is that I am using the default webforms view engine with asp.net mvc. I think it is still the best option as you get intellisense and also Resharper refactoring even searches your views, and the static solution anaylsis can find code errors in your views.
For building my markup I have been using MvcContrib Fluent Html but you could also checkout this article that advocated the DRY principal very well.
I need to make a client able to drag and drop images into category-folders in an ASP.NET 3.5 web-app.
I was hoping that an option existed, that was almost as easy to use as the Reorderlist from Ajax Control Toolkit, and where I did not have to look into JQuery or similar handcoding.
What are your recommendations?
Similar questions have been asked before, like this 6 months ago...: ASP.net AJAX Drag/Drop? where MooTools is recommended, but 6 months is a long time in the ASP.NET/Ajax world, so maybe a better and even simpler option exists now?
Commercial components are also an option - well up to 200$ anyway.
My experience with the Reorder List in the Ajax Control Toolkit, as with many other 3rd party providers, is that most of them don't seem to be worth the effort. Definitely try them before you buy.
Unfortunately a lot of the samples/components out there are all too client-based and always seem to fall short on real-world uses and the sorts of interaction you need with ASP.Net applications (e.g. handling postback). Dragging a div around isn't that complicated, but that's all a lot of examples do. If your needs don't exactly mirror their offering try something else.
The Manning book ASP.NET AJAX in Action is a good reference on code for performing drag and drop. It uses Microsoft.Web.Preview, but this hasn't been updated in quite some time which is a worry. I have created a pretty good drag and drop UI with MS's PreviewDragDrop, it does work cross-browser, and it's pretty easy to code. Preview DLL's aside, the Manning book is great for understanding Microsofts AJAX API.
However, since jQuery is going to be shipped and supported with Visual Studio, I would recommend using it over anything else in a vain attempt to future-proof yourself.
A final piece of advice is never outsource your core competency. If this page is a core part of your offering you're better off implementing it yourself using library code like jQuery or Microsoft.Ajax rather than relying on a 3rd party component. However, if it's just a minor part of your site, then go ahead and use 3rd party controls.
Ref: My Version of Microsoft.Web.Preview.dll is 1.1.61025.0.
i have been very very happy with telerik's treeview control and use it for almost any asp.net application which needs a treeview drag and drop.
they allow free development licenses (not production though) so i guess you should give it a try. go to www.telerik.com and have a look
This is another Mootools suggestion, but you might find the Mif.Tree plugin useful. It's an MIT license. There are also code examples for each of the demos and API docs.
Robert>>
After spending 4-5 painful days of hacks, double-hacks and hacks to get around other hacks, I have come to the same conclusion as you. Especially the reorderlist from the ajax control toolkit drove me to the very edge of insanity.
It seems to me there is no real way around learning JQuery and simply doing the stuff myself. I used to shy away from doing client-side code, but with AJAX so much code has moved away from being just serverside.
JQuery has just been moved to the top of my personal study program.
Jquery has drag and drop controls.
Link
Maybe that will help...