Say for example you're getting a web app project that interacts with a database.
How do you start your development? Do you start by designing your database, drawing simple ERD and writting a create scripts? Do you start by designing the look of your of web app, maybe using photoshop, then create a master page for it? or do you start by designing your domain models, with minimal looks, and apply a preetier design later on?
Please share you thoughts on this... Cheers...
You start by deciding which way you start. No but really, it depends on too much factors to have a general answer. Do you develop using concepts of agile development, are there specified functional designs, did the client give you strict requirements, what is your own experience etc..
Generally we start by developing our business objects first, then creating views for them using sample data / fake databases or sometimes even plain text files. From there, we start filling in the bits and pieces. If not all requirements are set, it's best to keep the database outside your development as long as possible. That way you prevent yourself from having to change your db, sprocs and interaction with your db everytime.
I tend to do the last of those ideas, "start by designing your domain models, with minimal looks, and apply a preetier design later on" I like to make my application, of any kind, does what I want it to do before I spend time on making it look pretty.
Figure out how the users need to interact with your site first. What are they needing to achieve?
Let this define you ERD and the database model will quickly follow.
Then, when you actually start coding you'll be heading in the right direction.
Many will also say, write your Unit Tests first. It's hard to do but often worth it.
UI and DB, but it depends which one is really first. The UI is a very important thing because your customer has to work with it in the end (some say there might be developers who sometimes forget...). The database design is a very good way to put (some) structure in all the business needs which aren't always specified in a strictly and well structured way.
This is junior's experience, I've been working in development since 2004, beginning with a 4-year-apprenticeship in a development company.
Cheers,
Matthias
I start with the functional UI, moving from there to the business layer and db (usually in tandem to start with). Design is normally provided in some respect by the client, so I try to apply that early on, without letting it get in the way. I like to get the domain sorted out in one step (minor changes are acceptable later), and I create my scripts as I get to them in my code.
It sounds like a bit of a runaround, but it works for me.
I definitely start with a UI Prototype.
Clients never know what they really want untill they see it.
A simple change on a UI can translate to a dramatic change in the core components of your system. So rather let the user play with a pretty prototype until they are confident it's what they looking for, and then dive into system objects and database design.
With regards to Database and System objects, I find it difficult to decide which way to go. Going database first definitely influences my class design, so I try go object first as much as possible. It turns into a more human design IMO
Depends on the Project Id' say.
Usually it's good to have a Photoshop mockup to show your client what they're getting.
On small no-maintenance projects I try to start by modeling the database first to get a better overview on the structure. Then it's usually quite easy to create a Web Application around it.
On bigger projects I usually start by creating (basic) prototypes of critical pieces of the software. I then show those to clients and afterwards throw them away. They're just there to help me understand the upcoming challenges better.
But as said, it's a matter of taste and project.
Related
As a novice to this realm, I am planning on building an mvc application. I had originally started a web forms application but decided the scalability and testability will benefit more with an mvc application. I chose to switch with the added benefit of being easier to add more features later on (instead of having code baked into web forms pages).
Now a little about my application, it is an application to stimulate an RPG class builder and moveset. In all simplicity, users can register for a class, and depending on other skills they can register for, they can see a custom move set based on these categories. The way I am envisioning it is I will be able to go back and add more classes and skills later in the database and have users register for this new content immediately once it has been added to the project.
Everything lives in normalized tables, so many joint tables do exist. For each new skill or class I add will mean a handful of tables will be added to the database. This speaks to the way the data will be stored, everything and all information about classes, user data, skills, etc will be stored in the database.
I have designed all the initial database tables I will need to have at the start, and functionality I need (a home page, view skills page, view move sets page, etc.). I am stuck at the next step; where do I go? Should I make my controllers first? Models? Views? Design my page layouts? I am asking for advice from people who have taken a similar organic approach to an mvc project. I am facing analysis paralysis on what to start on, knowing I have a lot of work ahead of me.
Thank you for taking your time to answer.
I've taken everyone's advise and am putting together a website to learn MVC: http://learnaspnetmvc.azurewebsites.net
The most important advice I can give you: just start. A big project can seem overwhelming, especially when you're looking at it like a big project. Instead, break it into small achievable tasks. Find something you can do right now, the ever-so-smallest subset of functionality, and do it. Then do the next one. And the next.
That said, I'll tell you my personal process. When I start on a new application or piece of an application, I first like to create my models. That way I can play with the interactions between them, flesh out the relationships, and think about the needs of my application in a somewhat low-pressure, easily disposable way. I also use code-first, whereas you've gone an created your database tables already. Some people prefer to do it that way. Personally, I find starting with my classes and letting those translate into an underlying data store much more organic. In a sense, it relegates the database to almost a non-existent layer. I don't have to think about what datatype things need to be, what should be indexed and what shouldn't, how querying will work, what kind of stored procedures I need, etc. Those questions have their time and place -- the nascent development stage is not that time and place. You want to give your brain a place to play with ideas, and classes are a cheap and low-friction medium. If an idea doesn't work out, throw the class away and create a new one.
Once I have my models, I like to hit my controllers next. This lets me start to see my models in action. I can play around with the actual flow of my application and see how my classes actually work. I can then make changes to my models where necessary, add additional functionality, etc. I can also start playing around with view models, and figuring out what data should or should not be passed to the view, how it will need to be displayed (will I need a drop down list for that? etc.), and such. This, then, naturally leads me into my views. Again, I'm testing my thinking. With each new layer, I'm hardening the previous by getting a better and better look at how it's working.
Each stage of this process is very liquid. Once I start working on my controllers, I will make changes to my models. Once I hit the views, the controllers will need to be adjusted and perhaps the models as well. You have to give yourself the freedom to screw up. Inevitably, you'll forget something, or design something in a bone-headed way, that you'll only see once you get deeper in. Again, that's the beauty of code-first. Up to this point, I don't even have a database, so any change I make is no big deal. I could completely destroy everything I have and go in a totally different way and I don't have to worry about altering tables, migrating data, etc.
Now, by this point my models are pretty static, and that's when I do my database creation and initial migration. Although, even now, really, only because it's required before I can actually fire this up in a browser to see my views in action. You can always do a migration later, but once you're working with something concrete, the friction starts to increase.
I'll tend to do some tweaking to my controllers and obviously my views, now that I'm seeing them live. Once I'm happy with everything, then I start looking at optimization and refactoring -- How can I make the code more effective? More readable? More efficient? I'll use a tool like Glimpse to look at my queries, render time, etc., and then make decisions about things like stored procedures and such.
Then, it's just a lot of rinse and repeat. Notice that it's all very piecemeal. I'm not building an application; I'm building a class, and then another class, and then some HTML, etc. You focus on just that next piece, that small chunk you need to move on to the next thing, and it's much less overwhelming. So, just as I began, I'll close the same: just start. Writers have a saying that the hardest thing is the first sentence. It's not because the first sentence is really that difficult; it's because once you get that, then you write the second sentence, and the third, and before you know it, you've got pages of writing. The hardest part is in the starting. Everything flows from there.
The other answers here have great advice and important nuggets of information, but I think they do you a disservice at this stage. I'm the first to advocate best practice, proper layering of your applications, etc. But, ultimately, a complete app that follows none of this is more valuable than an incomplete app that incorporates it all. Thankfully, we're working with a malleable medium -- digital text -- and not stone. You can always change things, improve things later. You can go back and separate your app out into the proper layers, create the repositories and services and other abstractions, add in the inversion of control and dependency injection, etc. Those of us who have been doing this awhile do that stuff from the start, but that's because we've been doing this awhile. We know how to do that stuff -- a lot of times we already have classes and libraries we drop in for that stuff. For someone just starting off, or for an app in its earliest nascent stage, it can be crippling, though. Instead of just developing your app, you end up spending days or weeks pouring through recommendations, practices, libraries, etc. trying to get a handle on it all, and by the end you have nothing really to show for it. Don't worry about doing things right and do something. Then, refactor until it's right.
As a first step in planning a MVC framework application, We should start with a strong Model (typical C# props). This process is going to take most of our time, based on the fact that we need to understand the business first and then the relationships between different workflows and entities. So times business models evolve as time passes. So spend qualitative time on building this layer, but not too much.
Once domain (Business) Models are ready, before we actually start coding for Repository classes, we should define our Repository Contracts which are typically Interfaces. Contracts help all parties(other components) to interact with each other in the exact same way. Then we implement contracts on the Repository component, which is just going to act like PUSH and PULL data from your persistent medium (say database). Remember repository component never going to have any idea on business logic.
Once backend has been established, We can concentrate on my actual business process implementation. We can define one more level of Contract which defines all business operations which are to be done using Model classes. This interface has been implemented by BusinessLogic Component which does the core business activity (specific methods for every business operation). This particular component will use Repository component to delegate business data to persistence medium.
With above step completed, We can easily go and build Controllers. We should be calling business logic component methods in controllers and get work done. Once controllers are done, we can define our views and other UI elements like partial views etc.
Pictorial representation of the flow is as follows -
A simple architecture (from high to low level)
Presentation Layer
Domain Logic Layer
Data Access Layer
Database
Presentation layer is MVC project containing Views, Controllers and optional View-Models.
Domain Logic Layer is Class Library project which Presentation layer will access (via DLL or Service reference). This layer contains business logic and rules for the application.
Data Access Layer may contain two sub-layers-
Repository. User repository is best practice for any long term application.
Entity Framework Model.
This will communicate with database.
Database you already have.
I would suggest reading through a book by Scott Millet, called Professional ASP.NET Design Patterns.
ISBN : 0-470292-78-4
Scott walks through what a good ASP.NET site should look like from an architectural standpoint - i.e. DataAccess layers, Business Logic layers, Presentation Layers, Domain events etc.
By following on from industry standards, you will gain a better knowledge of how to correctly put together an MVC web-site.
Hope this helps.
I would suggest you to make your MVC application around a ASP.NET Web API , since it will help, in case you go for a mobile application later.
Since you are a MVC newbie, you should download some open source projects on MVC shared by seniors in the community. Study two or three projects, and analyze a solution which will the best for you.
A quick googling will get you to some good projects.
e.g.
Making a simple application , Prodinner
After that you should also go through MSDN tutorial on MVC 5 app with SSO , to enable social logins.
I have an idea for a business that requires a well designed web application. I'm not a rocket surgeon, but I'm smart enough to know that you get what you pay for and am willing to pay for talent. However, I want the development process to go as smoothly as possible and would like to know how to make that happen.
So, what information do developers need (or want) initially from the owner to avoid having to make assumptions about business (or other) requirements? Do I need to create state transition diagrams or write use cases?
Essentially, how do I take the concept in my head and package it in a way that allows the developer to do what they do best? (assuming that is creating good software. haha)
Any advice is appreciated.
Shawn
You may need to reword your question, as it is too general to get a good answer, so some vague details would be helpful.
But, the better vision you have of what you want the smoother it will be.
I find UML diagrams too confining, when you aren't going to be doing the work, as you may not come up with the best design.
So, if you start with designing out what each page should look like, as you envision it, then you can write up use cases, which are short scenarios.
So, you may write up:
A user needs to be able to log in using OpenID.
This will tell the developer one function that you want, and who you expect to do that action.
But, don't put in technologies, as you may think that a SOAP service is your best bet, but upon talking about it you may find that there is a better solution.
Use cases are good points to show what you are envisioning, and give text to your page designs.
Talk to the developers. Explain what you want and why you want it. Together you make the flow charts and whatnot. Writing requirements is part of the design process, and it's a good idea to have the developers onboard as soon as possible. Start simple and small, then grow and expand while iterating.
In talking over web services before, I have found the best starting point is drawing on a sheet of paper what you think the site will look like, and add in a few arrows from things you want clickable to the pages that should result. Keep it simple, nothing too fancy, and hopefully you and the developer can come to an understanding of what you want pretty quickly.
Use cases might be best for checking off all the points later in the project about how complete your site is; I haven't really found it to be a helpful starting point, but I'm sure others disagree. (They just seem too tedius to read when actually writing code.)
Same with state transition diagrams; they are too tedious and I think most developers will assume you made mistakes in them anyway. :) Everyone else does... Unless your project hinges very tightly on the correctness of a state machine, I wouldn't really bother.
This book contains some good advice on what constitutes a good statement of requirements from a programmers point of view. It also has the useful guideline of not trying to set the form of your requirements too early, and a substantial piece on describing the problem you are trying to solve.
I like UI mockups based on actual program/site flows e.g registering a customer or placing order. Diagrams/pictures of GUIs with structured, consistent data examples are unambiguous.
I agree that UML and use cases are only really useful if everyone speaks UML and the projects are of sufficient complexity (few are).
You may want to read up on Agile/Scrum techniques. These are becoming a sort of standard and when properly managed can save weeks of development time.
I find that words don't do a good job of communicating how a system is supposed to work. Wireframes, white-board drawings/transition diagrams, and low-fidelity prototypes are great ways to communicate a concrete idea. One example of a low-fidelity prototype is a "clickable" paper prototype that allows a user to touch "buttons" on paper to go from one drawing to another. It costs very little time (cheaper), but goes a long way to communicate an idea between two parties.
Stay away from formal documentation, UML diagrams, or class (technical documentation) diagrams that don't speak to you. This is what large, risk-averse companies move toward to be more "mature". These are also byproducts of an idea that is hashed out, and it sounds like you're in the hashing out stage.
I would like to know the best practice for a designing a simple CRUD application with some screens updating various tables (like admin pages to maintain static data for an application). the simplest way would be to drag a data grid/gridview, bind it to a dataset and use a data adapter for CRUD operations. but if this application needs to be scalable, lets say to add any extra UI/business logic in future, then is there any design pattern that can help with this? should I be using an object data source control and bind it to business objects instead? or are there any better ways of doing it? should I build a complete layered application or will that be overengineering for this requirement? any examples for UI design would also be helpful. thanks.
If you are looking for a really quick and easy approach, you can look at using Dynamic Data
http://www.asp.net/dynamicdata
on top of a Linq2SQL or EF4 backend - hardly any code needed at all.
+1 Oded. No offence RKP but you might be confusing "simple" with with "effective" or "value-for-money". I also think you might want to be more clear about exactly what it is you're after: example UI designs is quite a different issue from the logical architecture. Anyway - good on you for asking.
If this is a "tactical" solution: not expected to have a long life-span, or is a quick-and-dirty dev tool then how you build it might not be such a big issue. (also beware that short-term tactical apps can end-ed being long-term strategic ones - were working on an app now that the business see as a "temporrary" tool: they see it only being used for the next 5-10 years (!)).
If it's a tool the "business users" will use, then it's quite likely they'll expect changes overtime: depending on what the app is for a simple pass-through CRUD app might only cut the mustard for a short while.
So I guess this is where your admirable desire to look at best practice comes in.
Are you familiar with OO design? A lot of the principles behind good OO design also apply at the architectural level (SOLID, Common Reuse, Common Closure, Loose Coupling, Stable Dependancies and Stable Abstraction Principles).
lets say to add any extra UI/business
logic in future
So - this is where you need to consider up-front how you will seperate concerns and allow for growth: architecture doesn't mean you have to do a big upfront design, it just means you need to have an idea of how you'll grow the application as requirements grow..
To finish:
Have a good look at the different system quality attributes and work out which ones are particularly relevant to the system. prioritise them.
I get a lot of mileage out of Dependency Inversion (The D in SOLID) - abstract out things like data access early on.
For me the other really key "best practice" is to pay attention to SRP (the S in SOLID),
http://www.asp.net/mvc is my bet. It's easy to start with and get going... You won't be dissapointed. :) StackOverflow itself is built on top of it.
Does data binding fit in a 3 layered architecture? Is dropping a grid-view on a web form and binding it to a LinkDataSource or SQLDataSource considered bad? The way I see it, that's the Presentation Layer talking to the Data Access Layer. I once heard a "professional developer" say never ever do this, so what's the alternative if you shouldn't?
The way you are doing is ok if it is a small project, but if you want your app. to have flexibility to support Windows/ Web in future then you must use Layers.
Please follow this link http://www.dotnetspider.com/resources/1566-n-Tier-Architecture-Asp.aspx
You should have a middle tier between Presentation and Data Access layers, the middle tier is pulled out from the presentation tier and, as its own layer, it controls an application’s functionality by performing detailed processing.
The main task of Business layer is business validation and business workflow.
When you build your business logic components into an SDK, you are effectively disconnecting it from your Web application, and any input validation that it performs. Therefore, your business logic components are the last line of defense to make sure that only valid values make it into your database.
Databinding is, of course, necessary to effectively dispay data.
Tooling is great and can boost productivity. It is equally important to understand what the tooling is generating, even at a basic level, in order to be able to effectively utilize the generated code.
The reaction you describe seems a bit extreme. If a wizard can generate some code that works for ya, then use it. If you don't understand the generated code then that is the next priority; learn about what it is doing and why. In the meantime, you have a page that people can put eyes on regardless of how it got there.
I am a bit pragmatic when it comes to tools. You do what you have to do. But, if after [insert appropriate internship length] you are still using code gen and cannot customize or fix it then you (as in the royal you, not the you you) are being lazy or stupid or both. ;-)
OT:(almost) Never say never unless you want to lessen the impact of what you are trying to communicate.
my 2 pesos.
When you're doing a small project or a prototype, go with the LINQDataSource or SQLDataSource. However, the downsides of those data sources are serious enough for you to think hard if they are appropriate. If your doing a multi-layered or multi-tear architecture, they simply don't fit. But even if your architecture isn't that strict, you should ask yourself how big this application is going to be and how likely it is going to be that you will make changes to the system in the future. How much time it is going to take you when you want to make a change to the database?
I've seen projects were the developers used those data sources, because those were the constructs that were used in those nice ASP.NET video's. However, when the projects grown from prototypes to big production applications (yes, I’ve seen it happen, the prototype seemed good enough), the lack of compile time support (your queries are defined in markup!) made it very hard to do any change to the system.
When you need to make a change to the system, that will be the time that you’ll see that the cost of the change is a magnitude bigger than the time you saved by flattering your architecture.
I just finished working on a project for the last couple of months. It's online and ready to go. The client is now back with what is more or less a complete rewrite of most parts of the application. A new contract has been drafted and payment made for the additional work involved.
I'm wondering what would be the best way to start reworking this whole thing. What are the first few things you would do? How would you rework the design in a way that you stay confident that the stuff you're changing does not break other stuff?
In short, how would you tackle drastic application design changes efficiently (both DB and code)?
Presuming that you have unit tests in place, this is just refactoring.
If you don't have unit tests in place, then
Write unit tests for the parts you're likely to keep.
Write unit tests for the parts you're going to change.
Run the tests. The "keep" should pass. The "change" should fail.
Start refactoring until the tests pass.
This is NOT-A-NEW thing in software and people have done this and written a lot about this.
Try reading
Working Effectively with Legacy
Code
Refactoring Databases:
Evolutionary Database Design
The techniques explained here are invaluable to sustain any kind of long running IT projects.
Database design is different from application design in this regard.
Very often, client rethinking changes the application completely, but changes little, if anything, in the fundamental underlying data model of the enterprise. The reason for this is that clients tend to think in terms of business processes, but not in terms of fundamental data. Business processing and data processing are tightly coupled. Data storage is less tightly coupled.
In the days of classical database design, designers learned how to exploit this pattern, by dividing their database design into (at least) two layers: logical design and physical design. There are any number of times that a change of business process requires a complete rewrite of the application, and a major rework of the database physical design, but requires few, if any, changes to the logical design.
If your database design didn't separate out the layers like this, it's hard to tell what gets affected and what doesn't. Start with your tables and columns. Ask yourself if any of the changes require removing any column from the table it's in, or require inventing new columns. If the answer is no, you're in luck. Next, look at the constraints placed on the database (things like PRIMARY KEY, FOREIGN KEY, UNIQUE and NOT NULL). These constraints might be tightened or loosened by the client's changes. If not, you're in luck. If you didn't declare any constraints in the database, and chose to do all your integrity protection in application code, you're probably out of luck.
You still have a fair amount of work to do in terms of changing the indexes on the tables, and the way the application works with the data. But you've salvaged part of the investment in the old system.
The application itself is much more vulnerable to client changes in process than the database. If your database design was completely driven by your application design, you may be out of luck.
If it's THAT drastic of a change it might be best to just start over. I've worked on a number of projects that have gone through some drastic changes.
Starting over gives you a chance to use experience learned since the last project and provide a more efficent product.
I would recommend against trying to re-work the old site into the new site, you'll probably spend more time fiddling around changing things than you would have if you had just re-written it.
Best of luck to you !
How would you rework the design in a way that you stay confident that the stuff you're changing does not break other stuff? In short, how would you tackle drastic application design changes efficiently (both DB and code)?
Tests, code complexity/coverage metrics, and a continuous integration system. Run them early and often, so you know which parts are the riskiest and where to start writing.
These will become your safety nets when you have to make potentially problematic changes. If something does break, your CI system will tell you, and you won't have spent weeks down some rabbit hole before you realize there's a problem.
Sometimes you do things better the second time around so just try and stay positive. Plus you will have more domain knowledge this time around.