I'm just beginning to learn about ARP and networks. Was wondering if in end to end communication say between facebook and my computer, do the 2 ends know each others mac addresses?
Or does only my router know my mac adress, and the directly next link from it know its, and so on so that facebook only knows (out of the devices in this particular communication) the mac adress of the final router to pass my request to it?
I watched a Stanford video that seemed explain my mac adress gets put into the ip packet that goes to my router which is then enclosed in a packed containing its mac adress which gets passed down the chain. But I imagine I must be misunderstanding this otherwise a VPN wouldnt be able to fool the other end unless I simultaneously spoofed my mac address, right?
Thank you!
Was wondering if in end to end communication say between facebook and
my computer, do the 2 ends know each others mac addresses?
No, they don't know.
Or does only my router know my mac address, and the directly next link
from it know its, and so on so that facebook only knows (out of the
devices in this particular communication) the mac adress of the final
router to pass my request to it?
Yes, check below for more details.
Over the www, can the server see my MAC address?
Not directly, but, there can be a trail of search to get upto your MAC address. Actually, MAC address changes in every hop of the packet's journey. So, your MAC address can be stored in packets received by the first router/system to which your system/router passes packets.
Only those devices can see a MAC address which are on the same LAN network.
I must be misunderstanding this otherwise a VPN wouldnt be able to
fool the other end unless I simultaneously spoofed my mac address,
right?
This is a very big story, but, in short, you could say that VPN's can fool in the cases when the MAC address has been spoofed or the proxy agent/server has been used for retrieving the same information. So, in that case, one can't get directly to the MAC address. But, remember, nothing is impossible, just hard.
Related
I am person trying to learn networking. I understand that this may not be the best first step to take, but I am eager to try and understand how this takes place because it has been tearing up my mind for quite a while now.
My question is, how does a network recognize a device and automatically connect it to the network?(This is assuming, of course, that you have connected to the network previously and are connecting wirelessly.)
Does it store it on the routers side and then look for specific MAC Addresses and then connect it? Or is it stored somewhere on an encrypted file on your computer? Or is it none of these? Please forgive me if I am way off, I am only giving guesses from what I have so-far learned from networking.
'Connect it to the network' doesn't really mean anything, other than just plugging it in, or turning it on in the case of Wifi. What really happens is that the device broadcasts a DHCP request for an IP address, or else It already has an IP address in that subnet. From that point on it is discoverable by ARP, so other hosts in the subnet can send to it.
Hello Networking Gurus,
I have a question about IP duplication and how this impact the associated switches (layer 2). Sorry, I don't have any resources available to test this. It would be great if someone can shed some lights of their experience on this.
If I have two servers (Linux), say A & B, serving exactly same contents and for some reason they both are assigned same IP address. To be more specific, if A already has an address IP.100 and B has another address IP.200. Now at this point everything seems working and the switch has proper MAC addresses stored. If, later, B also gets the address IP.100, how would this affect the switch's ARP cache? When B gets the new address I assume it broadcasts ARP? to inform the associated switch.
So the question is, Does the switch stores both machines' entries? or overwrites the existing with new? Is there any standard behaviour or proprietary switches reacts differently?
If a client, with no ARP cache, tries to connect to IP.100, which machine would it be forwarded to? A or B or none? If A OR B, can I say from client point-of-view, that there's no outage? (Assume this is a static website, with no login sessions etc)
Feel free to point any relevant documentation.
Thank you in advance.
In theory, you shouldn’t have two hosts talking on the same IP, unless they are participating in routing. Eg any-cast. As things will break.
Each host will have its own MAC address. If the switch is only doing layer two forwarding, then the switch only keeps track of MAC addresses. It is the end hosts or routers that track ARP entries.
If you move IP 100 to B, then the hosts will update their own ARP table.
But if A and B have 100 at the same time, this will cause issues.
Switch will not see any IP's and do not have arp cache for forwarding packets , it will had only mac address table map macs to ports and macs in your case will be unique
I actually think this is how multicast works.
Hosts obtain a multicast address and all of the devices share that same multicast address.
A switch will gather collections of Mac addresses to that same multicast in it's mac table.
I could be wrong though....Still learning.
If I want to detect the number of connections active on my home Wifi network, how should I go ahead doing it? This can be useful for building applications which would serve as monitoring unidentified/unrecognized people being fraudulently misusing a person's Wifi network.
How to know whether your neighbors or others are using your wireless network is rather complicated.
If your neighbors are experienced Wi-Fi hackers, you might not be able to tell at all.
If they're just stealing your Internet connection, you may be able to tell from the logs on your router.
To find out who's on your wireless network, you'll need to start by taking inventory of all the devices that are meant to be connected. Find out their MAC IDs and their IP addresses (if they're static).
To find out the MAC ID/IP address on a PC, click the Start menu and choose Run. Type cmd and click OK. In the screen that opens, type ipconfig /all and hit Enter. The MAC address will be shown as the physical address. Once you know the MAC addresses of each of the PCs on your network, you will recognize any addresses that don’t belong under the screen that shows the MAC addresses of current connections.
Check IP addresses
Likewise you may be able to see how many IP addresses have been dished out by the DHCP server. If you check the IP addresses of each of your PCs, you can see if other IP addresses have been served.
To find out your IP address from the Start menu, click Run. Then type in cmd and click OK. In the screen that comes up, type ipconfig which will display the IP address for that computer. (Bear in mind, however, that if the PC is set to auto detect settings, then the PC's IP address will change the next time the computer is rebooted or switched on. Sometimes previously served numbers have not yet expired, so you may think someone is connected when they are not.)
Dealing with intruders
If you do find someone using your connection, they may well not be doing so maliciously or even knowingly. Sometimes people can’t tell which is their own connection and they may honestly believe that they are using their Wi-Fi router rather than yours. The best way to deal with this is to set up your own security and maybe you can help them find their own router!
The optimal solution is to set up a strong password using WPA or WPA 2 of almost 20 to 30 digits and numbers. Once your network is functioning, you can switch off the SSID broadcast (which prevents it from advertising the name of your network) so it would effectively disappear as far as your neighbors are concerned, and the first you might hear of it is when someone complains that their Web connection has disappeared.
You could look for logs such as current LAN clients, connection or status log, or connected MAC addresses.
Be Happy :-)
Do you have access to the Access Point management ?
Look for MAC addresses and their filtering. Modern APs allow you to filter devices and or limit the timeframe during which devices can authenticate themselves, using a hardware button.
A link on how to secure your AP here, and a good start to know what to play with !
You can Either USE this Command... On your Router or Modem... Some Modem's have console for Ping and Commands like that....
ipconfig -all
Why do we need an IP address when the MAC address is unique? Cant we communicate only with the MAC address?
You COULD communicate using only the MAC address, but only on your local network. IP addresses are routeable, without every system on the network needing to know about every other. You just need to know a range of addresses that are on your local network, and throw everything else up to your router. The same thing happens at the ISP level. "All 216.x.x.x traffic goes that way, all 105.x.x.x goes that way..."(Obviously a gross oversimplification, but that's the basic process).
If we tried to route everything by MAC address, every machine on the network would have to maintain a list of every other participant, and it just wouldn't scale.
No. MAC addresses are specific to Ethernet, IP is independent of the underlying hardware. You can connect machines that don't use Ethernet to the Internet, if you have the required bridges.
MAC addresses are not unique. MAC addresses are reused between media. This is why wireless (802.11) and wired (802.3) may not both be present on one collision domain (see 802.1D).
MAC addresses are not clustered -- meaning that devices which are nearby in network space do not have nearby MAC addresses. IP addresses do have this property of locality. Do you intend to route packets by having a universal list of MAC addresses copied to every computer on the Internet, or do you intend to route packets to their destinations through a hierarchy of localities?
On a single collision domain, MAC addresses can be the primary addressing mode (q.v. arp and rarp). However, extension to multiple collision domains is ineffective for the above reasons.
A great professor of mine named George Varghese, now at UCSD, made the following apt analogy: You want to send someone a letter. The analogy of sending to a device anywhere in the USA based on its MAC address is like sending someone a letter knowing only their Social Security Number. It does uniquely identify someone (OK, yes, SSN isn't guaranteed unique, but suppose it was for the sake of example), but it would be very hard to find them without some giant table of where everyone lived that you could look up indexed by their SSN.
An IP address (and the similar Open Systems Interconnect, or OSI, network addresses) are more like USA phone numbers with area codes and exchange numbers: (AAA) BBB-CCCC, where AAA is an area code, BBB is an exchange number, and CCCC identifies an individual line at that exchange. There is hierarchical information encoded in that number, so that when you are far away from the destination, you only need a small table indexed by area code to determine a good "next hop" to forward the call to, rather than a table of all phone numbers in the country.
Ethernet is a Medium Access Layer protocol. It was designed specifically to connect computers on the same network. If you want to connect computers remotely located, you certainly need to jump to destination by hopping through several routers. IP (Internet Protocol) was designed with this goal in mind, hence the need for it, while Ethernet protocol does not support routing. Only some forms of primitive bridging that would not scale for something huge like the Internet.
they are used for different protocol layer.
MAC address is your device specific address. It has no relation with the geographical location, etc. you are in currently.
Ex: You can buy a cellphone/laptop in US and use it in Japan,
Australia, etc. But MAC address would remain the same. But IP address
would change with respect to the network you are connected to.
So it is difficult to route packet in an internetwork of portable devices especially.
How would it be:
Consider you have a portable network-accessing device with you on which you are using the internet. If we use only the MAC address, how would any incoming packet find the location of your portable-device. Since MAC address gives you only a fixed 48-bit device address. (The worst case scenario is using a desktop computer and having a MAC address without the IP facility. Coupling it with the static table to find your predefined location based on the MAC address, but our life is incomplete without these portable devices right?)
Thus we need some addressing scheme that can help us with addressing in a big and portable environment like internet, and thus the role of IP comes into picture, where address is hierarchal to provide a more geographically exact location.
I'm working on a Wake on LAN service that will run from a web site and should interact with many different platforms - therefore, no Windows-only solutions. When a user registers their system with the web site, I need to get the MAC address to use in constructing the "magic" packet. I have a Java Applet that is able to do this for me and am aware of an ActiveX control that will work, but I'm wondering if there is a way to do this server-side by querying routers/switches. Since the system may be on any of a number of different physical subnets, using ARP won't work -- unless there's a way to configure the router(s) to perform the ARP on my behalf.
Anyone know of any network APIs, proprietary or otherwise, that can be used to look up MAC addresses given an IP address? I think we're using Cisco routers, but it's a complicated network and there may be multiple vendors involved at various levels. I'd like to get some background information on possible solutions before I go to make a sacrifice to the network gods. No point in abasing myself if it's not technically possible. :-)
EDIT: We do have the network infrastructure set up to allow directed broadcast, though figuring out the exact broadcast address since netmasks are not always /24 is another conundrum that I need to solve.
If you are on a local network that uses DHCP you might be able to look in the servers database to get the MAC of the last user with that address. In the future you could watch the network for ARP requests and cache the responses in some sort of table. You might also look at using RMON or SNMP to try and query the Address Tables on the switches and routers.
It should be noted that to use WoL across routers you either need to enable Directed Broadcasts or you need to have a relay server in the local segment.
Been a while since I played routers and swtiches but this might be a starting point for what to query using SNMP http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk648/tk362/technologies_tech_note09186a00801c9199.shtml
Use the following:
getmac /s destIp
To get the remote session Mac address.
I don't know if these might be helpful but take a look:
http://www.webdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134120
http://www.qualitycodes.com/tutorial.php?articleid=19
You've said everything I can think of...
The source MAC address changes as a packet hops from device to device so unless the client is on the same subnet, the server won't be able to get the MAC address. (You would do it via ARP)
A signed java applet or activex control would be the easiest solution. It would be able to (almost passively) get all the networking info you need (IE doesn't even prompt to run a signed applet)
If you are fully aware of the network that is using the service then you could probably query a gateway's client-list via SNMP or CDP. You would be able to map out IP-Addresses to MAC addresses... but this is really vendor dependent (but common) and wouldn't be much better (imo) than having an applet.
Currently the application is using a Java 6 applet that allows me to extract both the hostname and the MAC address from the remote system. I don't like having this dependency on Java 6, but Snow Leopard and Windows both support it, so I can probably live with it.
On a related-front our networking folks approached me for some help with converting some existing code to ASP.NET. During the conversation I asked if they had live MAC address information (since they do port shutoffs based on suspicious network activity -- viruses/worms). Turns out they do and we may be able to leverage this project to get access to the information from the network database.
I don't think there is any way to accomplish this. When the IP packet goes via the first router the host's MAC information is lost (as you know MAC is only used in ethernet layer). If the router most close to your PC was capable of telling the remote MAC code to you, again it would only see the MAC of the next router between your PC and the "other end".
Start sacrificing.
There's no general way to do this in terms of the network unless you have no routers involved. With a router involved, you will never see the MAC address of the originating system.
This assumes that the originating system only ever has a single network interface, so has only a single MAC address.
In fact, are you even sure that your "magic packet" (whatever that is) will reach the system you want it to reach, through the routers? That sounds like a function the routers or other network infrastructure should be performing.
Mac address is only used on network segments, and is lost at each hop. Only IP is preserved for end-to-end - and even then the from ip address is rewritten when Natted. I guess my answer is, not possible unless everything is on the same network segment, or your routers are set up for proxy arp (which is not really realistic).
You can only get MAC entries in the ARP table for machines on the same network. If you connect to a machine via a router then you will only see the routers MAC address in the ARP table. So there is no way of knowing the foreign host’s MAC address unless it's a host on the same network (no routers involved).
And by the way there are many similar question already on SO.
if it's a windows system you can use NBTSTAT -A
this will return the netbios info and the IP is there
any Management system like SMS or Altiris will have this info
The DHCP server is a good idea
If it's local you can ping it and then quickly run ARP -a
look for the IP and the MAC will be there.
you might need to write a small batch file.
if you have access to the PC you can use WMI to access the info for the Nic with DHCP.
As said above we can get mac address from a known IP address if that host is in the same subnet. First ping that ip; then look at arp -a | grep and parse the string on nix* to get mac address.
We can issue system command from all programming languages standard API's and can parse the output to get mac address.Java api can ping an IP but I am not sure if we parse the ping output(some library can do it).
It would be better to avoid issuing system command and find an alternative solution as it is not really Platform Independent way of doing it.
Courtesy: Professor Saleem Bhatti